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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!

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Ra

Ra

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Oct 27, 2017
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QUOTE="CROAT_56, post: 28182348, member: 62280"]
I read the article, that's why I asked he discusses BC which is not relevant given BC games use their older servers ala current BC on MS unless you're implying Sony is going to support their own servers for third party games being BC. Secondly he talks about cross gen games why would the head of SCE he talking about third party cross gen he has no control over that? So the likely answer to my understanding of the article is Sony too will support cross gen for some time but the amount of support is in question. Will it just be Ghosts and TLOU2 and it's future MP or other games too? This hysteria seems over blown. Both consoles will likely have games that are cross gen within the first year of launch as Booty mentioned in the November 2019 article. It seems most didn't catch the fact that 2 years at most puts it at the end of 2021 which is 1 year after launch. I can expect both to do that honestly.
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Why would a cross-gen multiplayer game not have active servers? Does it really need to be spelled out for you that he is speaking of games that are still actively being supported? That should be understood.

I really don't understand why you are twisting such a simple thing into something so complex, just to say "Sony too".

It's not that big of a deal.
 
jayu26

jayu26

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Oct 25, 2017
4,631
Tonky said:
exnqci68c1k01.jpg
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Dude tides on that planet must be fucked. Look at the size of those moons.
 
Kaiserstarky

Kaiserstarky

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Oct 30, 2017
1,319
AegonSnake said:
Assuming MS's plans are true (no next gen games until 2022 at the latest), it begs the question, what if the first party devs simply arent ready for a 2020 launch?

  • Coalition just shipped a game a few months ago. they wont have any games ready at launch.
  • obsidan shipped a game two months ago. they wont have any games ready at launch.
  • ninja theory is coming out with a game next year. they wont have any games ready at launch.
  • playground games shipped forza horizon 4 last year. 2 years is probably not enough for a fable reboot.

its safe to assume that none of these studios are making cross gen games. they might release remasters or patches for xsx versions, but its safe to expect no new cross gen or next gen titles from them until 2022.

that leaves
  • turn 10- racing game. i can see them getting away with a cross gen title. the genre has stagnated anyway. same could be true for polyphony digital. next gt might be cross gen.
  • state of decay devs - last released a game in may 2018. 2.5 years is probably too soon to get a game ready for launch. holiday 2021 would give them 3.5 years. i highly doubt their next game is a cross gen title.
  • rare - last release march 2018. they could have a smaller banjo or ratchet style game ready for release. but if they are working on an AAA game i highly doubt its cross gen since it wont release by the end of 2021 anyway.
  • the initiative - this new studio is the only candidate that makes sense to be making a cross gen game. probably started dev in 2017, too early for next gen. ms likely didnt finalize their plans until 2018 when they first announced their next gen plans. maybe they have a launch and launch window game along with halo infinite.
so thats three games at launch or during the launch window. forza 8. halo infinite. initiative new ip (maybe). and i think this is just matt booty telling us to keep our expectations down. its clear that their studio acquisitions were done a bit too late.

i think when at their xbox meeting, they will show off halo, initiative new ip, forza, state of decay 3 and rare's new game. pretty much an even split between cross gen and next gen.

sony will likely show off horizon 2, gt7, bluepoint's remake, spiderman and maybe a gow tease. i think gt7 is cross gen and bluepoint's game WAS cross gen since they were hiring people for a ps4 title. but making horizon and bluepoint's next gen is probably the only reason why they will have more next gen games at launch.

regardless, its pretty evident that both first party studios need to build new studios and more teams within each studio because if they cant get next gen only games out in 3 years they we are going to have some pretty rough years next gen. i dont see how spiderman and gow release in 2021 after just three years in dev. tlou3, ghosts 2, death stranding 2 and ghosts 2 are also likely 2023 titles at best. sony too needs a lot more teams to bridge the gap.
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I don't think the Bluepoint game will be cross-gen with how they talked about it in the last Wired article and i also expect that this game is one of the PS5 Only that Jason Schreier know about it.
 
famousmortimer

famousmortimer

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I feel like Microsoft is saying "Gamepass is more valuable to us than our hardware platform."

Which, of course, leaves it up to customers on whether they agree or not. Gamepass is really awesome and quite popular, so it may be a winning strategy. Or it may not.

But it's worth noting that this is the first launch I can think of where one of the platforms is basically saying "there's something more important to us than this thing." And my personal speculation is that *feeling* will come back to bite MS.

But im wrong about a lot of stuff, often.
 

Deleted member 19767

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Yearsoflurking said:
Please point to the people saying the Jaguars cores should be used for next gen gaming, you're painting a very broad dangerous brush with this passive aggressive post. I haven't seen one person in here stating that.
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I'm not going to start pulling out specific posts/members, and I didn't accuse anyone of directly stating that Jaguar cores should be used.

What I am saying is that there is a ton of defensive posts despite the concept being quite straightforward. No amount of 'good games are good games' or 'developer vision won't change overnight' changes the fact that Jaguar CPUs will be a burden if we want the best next gen games.

There is nothing dangerous about that statement.
 
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Burrman

Burrman

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Oct 25, 2017
7,633
AegonSnake said:
Assuming MS's plans are true (no next gen games until 2022 at the latest), it begs the question, what if the first party devs simply arent ready for a 2020 launch?

  • Coalition just shipped a game a few months ago. they wont have any games ready at launch.
  • obsidan shipped a game two months ago. they wont have any games ready at launch.
  • ninja theory is coming out with a game next year. they wont have any games ready at launch.
  • playground games shipped forza horizon 4 last year. 2 years is probably not enough for a fable reboot.

its safe to assume that none of these studios are making cross gen games. they might release remasters or patches for xsx versions, but its safe to expect no new cross gen or next gen titles from them until 2022.

that leaves
  • turn 10- racing game. i can see them getting away with a cross gen title. the genre has stagnated anyway. same could be true for polyphony digital. next gt might be cross gen.
  • state of decay devs - last released a game in may 2018. 2.5 years is probably too soon to get a game ready for launch. holiday 2021 would give them 3.5 years. i highly doubt their next game is a cross gen title.
  • rare - last release march 2018. they could have a smaller banjo or ratchet style game ready for release. but if they are working on an AAA game i highly doubt its cross gen since it wont release by the end of 2021 anyway.
  • the initiative - this new studio is the only candidate that makes sense to be making a cross gen game. probably started dev in 2017, too early for next gen. ms likely didnt finalize their plans until 2018 when they first announced their next gen plans. maybe they have a launch and launch window game along with halo infinite.
so thats three games at launch or during the launch window. forza 8. halo infinite. initiative new ip (maybe). and i think this is just matt booty telling us to keep our expectations down. its clear that their studio acquisitions were done a bit too late.

i think when at their xbox meeting, they will show off halo, initiative new ip, forza, state of decay 3 and rare's new game. pretty much an even split between cross gen and next gen.

sony will likely show off horizon 2, gt7, bluepoint's remake, spiderman and maybe a gow tease. i think gt7 is cross gen and bluepoint's game WAS cross gen since they were hiring people for a ps4 title. but making horizon and bluepoint's next gen is probably the only reason why they will have more next gen games at launch.

regardless, its pretty evident that both first party studios need to build new studios and more teams within each studio because if they cant get next gen only games out in 3 years they we are going to have some pretty rough years next gen. i dont see how spiderman and gow release in 2021 after just three years in dev. tlou3, ghosts 2, death stranding 2 and ghosts 2 are also likely 2023 titles at best. sony too needs a lot more teams to bridge the gap.
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This is a good post. They could've saved some games for launch on the XSX but that would leave them abandoning the one. They got a lot of shit at the end of the 360 era for that. The games that are cross gen are games that started out early on the one. You could argue that they should've had an exclusive ready for the XSX but It is what it is. It'll really only affect a couple of first party games realistically.
 

Deleted member 50658

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Proven said:
I don't think this gen was boring because of any design issues, I just don't think I liked the games because they were medicore.

Having a potential "next gen" bump isn't going to suddenly make these games better.
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So let me get this straight.

You don't believe this gen first party exclusives were good especially from Xbox.

You have nothing against Xbox deciding to not let their developers focus on the new hardware and getting as much out of it as possible.

You don't think next gen hardware marketed by both companies as "game changing"
make games better.

Yet you want to start a conversation in the next gen thread about how you hope this generation will provide better first party exclusives?

If you don't think either hardware or generations matter why would you want to start a conversation about new first party games and why you hope they will get better in this thread?

Do you not believe Xbox or Sony can impress you and show creativity with the new hardware and the new gameplay they claim it provides?

Why do you care about new generations at all and why are you spending so much time in this thread if you don't believe it matters anyway?

I am probably repeating myself but I can not understand this reasoning like at all?
 
Kreten

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
zombiejames said:
No, I'm not saying XSX == One X. I'm saying the XSX (for the first year or two) will only be running first-party games designed to also run on the regular old One. This limits design, scope, and other areas. We have no idea what next-gen games look like yet.

We're reaching broken record territory here.
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How does this limit design/scope of games is what I'm trying to understand? You can find pretty much every game out there running on Intel HD integrated GPUs despite games not being designed with those graphics in mind, even Star Citizen.

Haven't we already seen Forza Horizon from MS showing us that game wasn't held back.
 
Metalmucil

Metalmucil

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Aug 17, 2019
1,392
Do we know anything about PS5 power? Not processing power, but the PSU. I'm really hoping it has a universal PSU like the ps4 so I can use it anywhere without worrying about voltage and whatnot.
 
DriftingSpirit

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AegonSnake

AegonSnake

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Stripper13 said:
Unfortunately there is a defense force for everything and it's almost pointless discussing it with certain members. Hopefully we get some news soon so we can move on. Maybe a PSM date will be the catalyst we need.
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well, lets start this off. What can we expect from gameplay reveals at the PSM? And i dont just mean what games, but actual gameplay features that you think we might see in next gen games designed around next gen hardware.

klee has given us a glimpse of what to expect. A game with ray traced reflections, shadows and maybe even global illumination. Destruction on a scale we havent seen before. Game didnt look as good hellblade 2 but thats to be expected since ray tracing and destruction is bound to take gpu resources away from prettier graphics.

we have seen spiderman's level being traversed extremely fast. but then again, thats a last gen game with graphics that dont come close to the photorealistic graphics we saw in the hellblade 2 trailer. but even at half that speed, we should see flying possible in pretty much every open world game from sony. horizon should have flying, spiderman should have traversal thats much faster, god of war could have flying if they get that hammer from thor during the game. if those gta rumors are true, then jets in that game will actually fly as fast as jets.

i would love to see destruction on a scale we have never seen before. i want every building in spiderman to be fully destructible. i dont care if it upsets new yorkers but i want nyc to look like a war torn city after a superhero boss fight. i want every single tree, tree branch, plant and river to react to everything aloy does.

i dont care much for ray tracing after having played several ray traced games on pc. but i wouldnt mind seeing spiderman reflections on every building in nyc.

i really dont see how they enhance demon souls tbh. what can cpu and ssd really bring to that franchise aside from 60 fps and faster loading? i wish they were doing a mgs3 remake instead.
 
Samanosuke Akechi

Samanosuke Akechi

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Seems the other place is suggesting eldin ring and cyberpunk could be timed exclusive to Ms

I read somewhere recently that Microsoft is ready to open their checkbook this time. Who knows.
 
Liabe Brave

Liabe Brave

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Kage Maru said:
I completely get point that you can cut out enough graphically can result in a different game. I think that perception is subjective and not entirely objective though. ...Despite what I or any other gamer thinks, it's still an example to how a game can be cross gen while still providing that next gen experience on the newer platform.
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I don't have any argument against the idea that a crossgen game played on its newest platform can be a different experience than when played on its oldest. The player definitely still gets a taste of nextgen. I just think it goes against all evidence to say that exclusively nextgen games don't lie even further along that continuum, tasting yet more deeply of the future.

None of this necessarily amounts to any sales impact for Microsoft. It will mean slightly less ambitious games, with lesser onscreen results. But that doesn't preclude success, just as it didn't during the start of this generation when Xbox One games looked and ran worse than PS4 versions. And yet still sold.

Yearsoflurking said:
So what's the barometer and ideas for change in game design that we will see at launch? I haven't seen one idea, I'm willing to bet it will still be possible on last gen consoles with obvious concessions
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If it's "with obvious concessions", then it wasn't actually possible on the old hardware. I'm not making any claim about whether there will be such games at launch, mind you, just clearing up that if the idea is weakened it isn't actually the same idea.

Trup1aya said:
And I'm telling you that there's literally nothing preventing a crossgen developer from using the remaining computational power to ADD things that were impossible in the previous gen version due to technical limitations.

Case and point: Forza Horizon 2 for 360 vs Xb1.
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That's actually evidence against your position. In order to offer the "same" game to both gens, there actually had to be two distinct development teams. Playground were not able to scale their ambition down--or if you prefer a more triumphal reading, they were allowed freedom to build a nextgen-only version. Then Sumo Digital were hired to create an entirely different game--less offroading, no weather, less traffic, worse physics and AI, missing modes, etc.--that reused some design and assets to evoke as much of the feel as possible. The game had to be rebuilt separately by an entire other studio. If it hadn't been, then the nextgen version would've been held back severely.

"What does it matter how they got there?" you might say. "In the end it's a crossgen title which takes advantage of the stronger platform." Sure, and this path is definitely still open to Microsoft (and other publishers including Sony, though they historically seem to do it slightly less often). But it has a big opportunity cost, as you're paying much more to make "one" game. Costs aren't double since the lastgen dev has a template to roughly follow, and much more experience with their target platform. But it's still a considerable amount of money, a good chunk of a nextgen game budget you could've expanded another game with. Do the double-developers thing two, three, or four more times because of your policy, and now there's entire new games you can't fund because you spent the money elsewhere.

Burrman said:
Jez is right in a way though. The only people I see complaining about this are the people that weren't planning to get one anyways. Well most at least.
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Even if this was factually true, it wouldn't matter. I don't need to ever have been bitten by a dog to have a negative opinion of dogbites. And to say so to anyone I encounter saying "Dogbites don't happen, and even if they did at least they're not anti-consumer."

Okay, the analogy breaks down. But the point stands that it's perfectly valid to have opinions on things you're uninterested in.

Proven said:
For those who are truly concerned about XSX games being held back for the first year or so, I'd ask maybe just wait until we see some gameplay first. If it's somehow abundantly clear that the games are being held back in comparison to PS5 games or something then fine it sucks. But until then I don't think it warrants this much attention. We don't even know what the games look like yet.
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Agreed. I'm definitely of the opinion that games developed exclusively for a platform look (and often play) better than those developed to also run on much weaker hardware. But that doesn't mean that crossgen games won't immediately be notably better on the new consoles, regardless of appearing on prior machines too. And if PS5 specs fall below XSX in overall graphical performance--which I strongly believe they will--then the differential in question may not matter at all. That is, a crossgen game that doesn't take full advantage of the XSX hardware could still be just as impressive as a game developed exclusively for PS5 that uses more features...but runs against a lower ceiling.
 

Deleted member 15973

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The Initiative was founded in 2018 and talked about AAAA development. If they're not making a next gen only game then that's laughable.
 
Proven

Proven

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Rumpestump said:
So let me get this straight.

You don't believe this gen first party exclusives were good especially from Xbox.

You have nothing against Xbox deciding to not let their developers focus on the new hardware and getting as much out of it as possible.

You don't think next gen hardware marketed by both companies as "game changing"
make games better.

Yet you want to start a conversation in the next gen thread about how you hope this generation will provide better first party exclusives?

If you don't think either hardware or generations matter why would you want to start a conversation about new first party games and why you hope they will get better in this thread?

Do you not believe Xbox or Sony can impress you and show creativity with the new hardware and the new gameplay they claim it provides?

Why do you care about new generations at all and why are you spending so much time in this thread if you don't believe it matters anyway?

I am probably repeating myself but I can not understand this reasoning like at all?
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I believe they can impress me but I think Xbox disappointed me with a lack of talent not a lack of tools.

I believe next generation stuff will eventually matter but do not believe it necessarily matters in the first year or so of a console cycle. It takes a couple of years for new hardware to actually be utilized to where there's a noticeable design difference, so having XSX games also have to be ported to Xbox One for a year shouldn't matter much.

Also why are you so obsessed with what I say? If you don't like it feel free to put me on ignore.
 
Brohan

Brohan

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Oct 26, 2017
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Yearsoflurking said:
You said

"This is pretty much the same as saying that the Jaguar Cpu's are not a problem." I haven't seen one person in here advocating for the continued usage of the garbage jaguar cores and more crossgen games.
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Again you make this weird turn. I did not accuse others of saying that they want more crossgen games or that they want the jaguar cpu's to continue to be used.

I did however say that there are plenty in here that are acting like the current gen will not hold back crossgen games. And with that I am saying that they are acting like the Jaguar Cpu's do somehow not pose a problem.

If you want to then take what i just said and turn it into some weird conclusion that is up to you.
 
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Trup1aya

Trup1aya

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TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
I don't know why this discussion insists on being focussed on launch, when MS are saying they plan to support legacy consoles for up to two years.

Up to 2 years is the timeframe MS themselves have set. There's absolutely every likelihood that grandiose new game concepts will appear within the first two years of a new platform. However, by placing these hard limitations on MS's own first parties, they are pretty much guaranteeing their devs won't be the ones originating these exciting new concepts that are engendered by the ability to exclusively take advantage of next-gen console tech..


3 years is the average period for games development. 4 for bigger games. That's pretty reasonable, and given the micro architectural similarities in hardware between this new and current-gen (which itself is a first in the console space), you HAVE to take credit for the fact that game devs will be able to retain all their engine code, tool chains and asset production workflows this gen transition.

So in general, this transition will be one of the easiest, meaning devs making launch games will spend less time fighting with the SDK trying to get stuff to run and more time iterating on ideas to tighten and polish their game ready for launch.
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He said
"As our content comes out over the next year, two years, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices
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People are saying "at launch" because the comment was made in Nov of 2019. Which means the "mandate" would end before holiday 2021, less than a year after XSX goes on sale.

Theres no reason to believe that MS wont be delivering these on these grandios concepts within the same timeframe as everyone else. Holiday 2021 games are in development now and will likely be next gen exclusive.
 
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RingRang

RingRang

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TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
I don't know why this discussion insists on being focussed on launch, when MS are saying they plan to support legacy consoles for up to two years.

Up to 2 years is the timeframe MS themselves have set. There's absolutely every likelihood that grandiose new game concepts will appear within the first two years of a new platform. However, by placing these hard limitations on MS's own first parties, they are pretty much guaranteeing their devs won't be the ones originating these exciting new concepts that are engendered by the ability to exclusively take advantage of next-gen console tech..
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If you really think we're going to see all kinds of totally new game ideas because of these SSDs and the CPU I have a feeling you're going to be really disappointed next gen.

Hardware advancements have rarely been the reason for brilliant new game ideas.
 
groganos

groganos

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Jan 12, 2018
408
Ohhhhiiiiyyyoooo
Hey y'all I tend to be a lurker around these parts but like ...does it really matter? Hear me out if Microsoft wants to put out cross gen games for a year or two like they done with xbox 360 to one and Sony has some next gen exclusives (knack 3 better be a thing) then who really cares? I understand that game design and what have you could be gimped but like it seems Microsoft wants to sell to the new gen and get some cash from those who bought their console last gen while Sony might put some exclusive games on their next gen system to maybe push the transition a tad faster? I don't think the Sony exclusives are gonna be their big guns right from the gate but I think we're squabbling over some things that like really don't justify the squabbling.
Sorry had to edit a don't in front of justify.
 

Deleted member 50658

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1,911
Yearsoflurking said:
Getting rid of an xbox one version wouldn't suddenly change the vision that they had for the game 5 years ago, game development isn't completed overnight. They will take advantage of the sds/RT cores/VRS 2.0 etc in wayys that fit the vision they built the last 5-6 years
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No it would not unless they created a new one and scrapped the old. The problem is that Xbox knew they would launch the game with XsX and decide to also have it, and every other game for quite a while, available on the current gen. After that the vision was created with both generations in mind.

Sony told their developers to not have the limitations of the old generation in mind when designing their vision for their next game.

Instead of a game that will take complete advantage of all the new hardware and software solution you mentioned in the end it will instead be used as simply makeup on a vision including hardware that was considered low end (especially CPU) when it released in 2013.

And we don't even know yet how many visions with makeup we will get instead of letting talented developers from their first party studios go crazy with the new hardware and software to create a vision, that will push the industry far more, because of this decision and we probably never will.

This is what me and DF and many other probably are against.
 
wartime

wartime

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Oct 27, 2017
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Thorrgal said:
How could you have a next gen exclusive before the launch, though? He's obviously talking about 2 years from the launch forward (also, why say 1-2y if it's only 1y? It will be more than 1year...)
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I assume that means all games that come out prior to the XSX launch will get XSX enhancements.

"As our content comes out over the next year, two years all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices..." reads to me as beginning when he made the statement.
 
vivftp

vivftp

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Oct 29, 2017
20,098
Heid said:
I want the PS5 theme to be red instead of blue.
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It'll likely be blue again. The PS4 logo was shown for the first time on a black background so the PS5 logo being on a black background doesn't mean much. Playstation has built their identity as of late with the color blue so I see no reason for them to change it now.
 
Yearsoflurking

Yearsoflurking

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Nov 11, 2017
2,744
Thorrgal said:
How could it be 1 year from 2019 then if the console comes out at the end of 2020??

Let's be serious lol
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I doubt he know's exactly when every pipeline project will be exactly ready or if some will even hit launch, he gave a quick estimation on the titles he know will be around that timeframe. I doubt he looked at calendar and went " everwilds" is slated for launch window , so I'm going to say " blank amount of time". I think the main problem here is that gamers in general look at EVERYTHING in an extremely negative light, he should have been more careful when speaking on games that couldnbe shared between both systems.
 
Kreten

Kreten

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Nov 16, 2019
323
Brohan said:
The witcher doesn't require a SSD to run does it? It was also made to run on tablet grade cpu's.

You posting vids of people making games run on potatoes isn't really a good example either. You are just scaling down textures and resolution, foliage etc until it can run on shitty hardware but again that is all visual. Surface level.

Nothing comparable to a game designed around an ssd for example.
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Star Citizen is designed for high end GPUs and SSD and yet it can run on integrated GPU and hdd.

For xsx game to run on HDD they can reduce speed, lowering number of things on screen, number of npc, lower textures etc all of these things automatically reduces drive speed requirement. Also why wouldn't they be able to add loading screen in middle of nowhere, plenty of games do it right now.
 
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EBomb

EBomb

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Oct 25, 2017
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Thorrgal said:
???
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It's written right on this page:

"As our content comes out over the next year, two years all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices..."

Matt Booty (2019)

Why does this obviously mean no first party XsX exclusives for 2 years after the console releases in Nov 2020 (estimate).
 
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