PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

Which team are you on?

  • Double Team (1997)

  • Team Walnut

  • The A-Team

  • Team "No One Can Stop Mr. Domino"

  • Sports Team

  • "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel."

  • Team Margarita


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op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,935
if github is the direction we can expect retail ps5 to be based on it would predict a lower BOM (smaller wafer) and special cooling (2.0 clocks). this latest article is confirmation of NOTHING, but could support the 36/40 CU 2.0 speed demon. (disclaimer, not the only "conclusion" that could be supported i'm sure)
 

Retroarnold

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,221
I'm I the only one who doesn't care about TF? I just want the PS5 to have mind blowing exclusive games that look better than PS4 games. I'm easy to please
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
609
He's probably talking about third-party titles and not exclusives
Sure. If that's the case you think his sources would know the difference and not just tell him no exclusives. It's kind of an important distinction to make sure not to leave out if you ask me. If your an potential investor reading this report you will probably assume ps5 will just have no exclusives at launch and may sway your decision on if you should buy or sell.
I doubt most of the people reading that article are saying "well he probably means just 3rd parties"
 
Dec 10, 2019
298
I really can't say what they're doing right now. This long a silence doesn't feel right (for Sony) and clearly everyone including journalists and analysts are starting to grumble about it now.
I just don't want one console maker to be fumbling every generation.
Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo.
Why can't they for once all 3 deliver without some fuckups?
That would be something new and refreshing^^

Sure it's a bit premature, we can't say that about Sony yet with certainty. But so far the launch is at least super unsuaual.
 

sjackso3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
144
Houston
If the XSX is a bit more expensive, it makes sense to be more powerful. That doesn't mean that the gap is too significant, since it's exaggerated here. They will surely be close if the production cost is similar. And if not, it's because they are targeting different potential customers.


Everyone who thinks that Sony or MS are doomed are fanboys who have trouble seeing reality.
Well said. Always nice to read someone making a rational comment.
 

gooner4life

Member
Oct 28, 2017
37
Nobody knows what the BOM is as Sony have revealed nothing in terms of specs.

The delay could be that Sony believe they have completely beaten Microsoft and don't want to give them time to respond, I don't think you can assume they know Microsoft have the stronger console so have decided to go radio silent, they would be out punching in my opinion.

However I do think people will be disappointed if you're just judging on Teraflops for both the XSX and PS5, these consoles will not be orders of magnitude greater than Xbox One X, the cost of the parts just doesn't make it viable, they will be able to produce much better games though and that's all that matters really isn't it.
 

kmag

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,361
if github is the direction we can expect retail ps5 to be based on it would predict a lower BOM (smaller wafer) and special cooling (2.0 clocks). this latest article is confirmation of NOTHING, but could support the 36/40 CU 2.0 speed demon. (disclaimer, not the only "conclusion" that could be supported i'm sure)
It's still, absent of any other factors or knowledge, a strange approach.

I'm not disputing the Github stuff, it just seems a strange approach to go small and fast rather than wide and slow. Any savings you make per wafer using a smaller APU essentially get lost by the clock tolerance (obviously only Amd and Sony will know the exact trade off there and it's unlikely to be a 1:1 thing so potentially it's a saving but if you're having to go into exotic cooling to get it in tolerance it really can't be much of a saving)
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,729
I just don't want one console maker to be fumbling every generation.
Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo.
Why can't they for once all 3 deliver without some fuckups?
That would be something new and refreshing^^

Sure it's a bit premature, we can't say that about Sony yet with certainty. But so far the launch is at least super unsuaual.
All we can do is keep calm and drink tea.

 

Blanquito

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
260
Their CMOS image sensor has DRAM stacked onto it.

Probably because the camera has some DRAM in it.
Because their camera uses DRAM.
When the BOM increases to keep it under control one of the options is to reduce or eliminate extraneous non-critical features or peripherals.
Ah thanks. I thought it was saying that the system DRAM would be affected - didn’t know that the camera itself has DRAM
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,091
When the BOM increases to keep it under control one of the options is to reduce or eliminate extraneous non-critical features or peripherals.
This has nothing to do with peripherals. It's their DSLR Alpha camera.

It's amazing to see people think that camera is PS5 related.
 

RCU005

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
569
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
This is pathetic and it just hurts the industry. The console they could make if they could sell you a console at 999.
People really have double standards
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,935
It's still, absent of any other factors or knowledge, a strange approach.

I'm not disputing the Github stuff, it just seems a strange approach to go small and fast rather than wide and slow. Any savings you make per wafer using a smaller APU essentially get lost by the clock tolerance (obviously only Amd and Sony will know the exact trade off there and it's unlikely to be a 1:1 thing so potentially it's a saving but if you're having to go into exotic cooling to get it in tolerance it really can't be much of a saving)
agreed. (if true) sony must have felt "locked in" at that size for some reason or another. could be the initial 2019 launch date (i think less likely) or the rumored push and difficulty with getting BC working. still, i dont think this scenario would make for an underpowered system by any stretch. as i've posted elsewhere, a narrow and fast gpu could be beneficial in some scenarios (it think) AND it is only one component of the system anyways (and i think its all but certain the SSD is something special in ps5 at the very least).
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,505
User banned (1 month): Trolling over a series of posts, recently banned for similar behavior, prior related infractions
Nothing revealed recently has done anything to strengthen it as final configuration. Making a general statement like this without supporting evidence just makes you look like you have an agenda.
I used the word " in my opinion" because its clearly my opinion and not a general statement. Not sure why you're so triggered over me having an opinion on something. The anger over people having opinions on factual evidence is weird.
 

tomofthepops

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,482
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
This is pathetic and it just hurts the industry. The console they could make if they could sell you a console at 999.
People really have double standards
I mean you don't pay for online on your phone and dont buy $60 games for it.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
I used the word " in my opinion" because its clearly my opinion and not a general statement. Not sure why you're so triggered over me having an opinion on something. The anger over people having opinions on factual evidence is weird.
Because the allusion of consensus without evidence is a deception tactic. Of course the statement is your opinion. This thread is almost exclusively opinions. Also, suggesting people pointing out your bullshit are being “triggered” is just gaslighting.
 

Bojanglez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
221
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
This is pathetic and it just hurts the industry. The console they could make if they could sell you a console at 999.
People really have double standards
I'd happily pay $1,000 for a console if its power was relative to its cost. However most people see their phone as a utility (or many utilities) and only a minority (maybe people like us) value our consoles in such a way. Also I'd imagine the mark-up on phones is pretty significant and it is all tied into the contract model, the fact that a Samsung phone retails for nearly double in the EU/US than in some Asian countries must mean they are simply scalping tjose willing to pay, something that I doubt you would want to be the case for consoles.
 

Doby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
223
Sorry I'm glancing through the thread updates and got a bit confused
Tbf when I first read the article I also assumed that, there was a rumour a long time ago both were launching with cameras and the context of the article does guide you into thinking its about the PS5 BOM. I find it unbelievable that there is a shortage of Dram to the point where Sony have to prioritise which product lines it goes into.
 

JoelStinty

Member
Aug 15, 2019
249
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
This is pathetic and it just hurts the industry. The console they could make if they could sell you a console at 999.
People really have double standards
This post is assuming a lot. Most people pay for their phones over the course of two or more years. I would say that phones are almost integral to our way of lives; they are a utility item as much as a phone or entertainment item.

Whilst you can do this with finance plans with consoles, they are also a luxury item and it competes with other luxury items. People have to pay other stuff off too. It’s not a case of one or the other. Most people pay for their consoles up front or on credit cards that need paying off.

The console market as proven that selling above £399 is notoriously difficult and I think both Sony and Microsoft will be reluctant to sell above that.
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
609
Sure, but when are those games going to be released?
Sony didn't talk about any next gen games yet at all.
They won't be at E3. So they reveal launch exclusives 3 months before the console launch?
We don't even have rumors about Ps5 exclusive games. The console will launch in 9 months.
I'm pretty sure sony and bluepoint spoke about a ps5 exclusive in the last wired article. Not sure if that's when it was talked about but I'm like 99% sure it isnoffically confirmed that bluepoints next game is ps5 exclusive.
 

More Butter

Member
Jun 12, 2018
1,360
I just don't want one console maker to be fumbling every generation.
Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo.
Why can't they for once all 3 deliver without some fuckups?
That would be something new and refreshing^^

Sure it's a bit premature, we can't say that about Sony yet with certainty. But so far the launch is at least super unsuaual.
In the PRO, One X, and switch mid gen we have have minimal fuck ups. This bodes well. I’m confident in all 3 console makers. I look forward to all these platforms this time around. All are aiming to delight in their own ways. It’s going to be ok. It’s all going to be OK. They got this!
 

GamingCJ

Member
Apr 14, 2019
613
The Series X having more compute units and more RAM chips would lead to a higher BOM.

The GPU comparison would be way too close to call, as the Series X would only need to overclock ~2% to have more TF. MS are also going for a 320 bit RAM bus so bandwidth would be higher than a 256 bit PS5.

Also reading Phil's multiple comments on FPS being more important, and the Windows Central article, Series X CPU would be clocked at ~3.6Ghz. PS5 is looking to have a 3.2Ghz CPU.

It could be a case where MS were willing to sell Series X at $499, so they went and got more CU's, over clocked the CPU, and used mixed density RAM to hit higher bandwidth.

Sony wanted to sell at $399, so they go for less CU's, but with the switch up being that they'll eat a few dollars in cooling to hit a certain TF target. Double the Xbox One X was probably a benchmark Sony wanted to hit back in 2016 for 2020. They wouldn't up clock the CPU, and they go for 8 2GB RAM chips. They would eat a loss selling at $399, but they did the same for PS4.

The only negatives for MS in this case would be PS5's GPU being way too close to Series X and the potential for Sony having a faster SSD. Now, if PS5 has to get bumped up to $499 and Microsoft holds at $499 as to not hit $599 and are now competitive with PS5 in price, that works out very well for Xbox. They wouldn't have to worry about a $399 console outperforming their $499 console in any category.
Your entire post seems very reasonable to me.

The only thing I don't get: Wouldn't MS be forced to bump their price as well? The RAM scarcity should hit them even harder than Sony due to more RAM in XSX.

Assuming MS can hold the $499 they once planned would mean either that MS is OK taking huge losses to meet Sony's price, or that their origonal BOM was only slightly higher than that of the PS5.
In both cases it wouldn't have been plausible for MS to originally target a price $100 more expensive than PS5, would it?
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
3,028
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
  1. Smartphone are part of jewelry now
  2. That's not the same customers, in age and financial situation
  3. High end smartphone price is non sense
  4. Consoles are just a platform, you buy them and have nothing baring a controller. So you ended up spending a lot more than the console.
 

Kinan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
230
The roster has been updated!

Also, I'm seeing some thinly veiled console wars over the last 10 pages or so. Cut it out, mmkay? Let's keep this fun.

Just remember the wise words from Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted "Theodore" Logan

And here is the corresponding stats update (199 votes!)



Actually first time that normal distribution maximum moved to the left, albeit only for a day. Maybe ERA got a bit more optimistic about the reveal after that bloomberg article?
 

Isayas

Member
Jun 10, 2018
2,474
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
This is pathetic and it just hurts the industry. The console they could make if they could sell you a console at 999.
People really have double standards
It is because they are phones. Phones have everyday usage unlike a consoles - said most normies.

It is really ridiculous and it is annoying to me but whatever. I have a PC as well so I will just buy ports and etc on there since it falls on the majority. Oh, well, business.
 

Gusy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
231
I can’t believe phones have gotten up to $1,300 usd, and people buy them every year or every two years, but refuse to buy a console that will last at least 7 years for more than 500 usd!
This is pathetic and it just hurts the industry. The console they could make if they could sell you a console at 999.
People really have double standards
You are comparing a box that plays games and media with PORTABLE devices that let you go online almost anywhere, interact with social media, stream and broadcast media, make video calls, have superb cameras for videos and pictures, have gps and positioning systems, 3d face mapping and fingerprint sensors for security, make phone calls and ... are also pretty good at running video games... among other things.

It's not quite an apples to apples comparison
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
Yeah they were on the 'super slims' by then which this gens consoles haven't had. Another reason going to late 2020 wasn't a good move as the much lower sales now show. I guess the Wired articles for PS5 from April 2019 haven't helped either.
I don’t think this was necessarily the wrong move. Subscription and network revenues are still strong. They’re holding hardware sales back from where they could be by not adjusting MSRP in line with historical trends.

Sales are definitely down, but they’re not abysmal. PS4 is the second best selling home console of all time, after all.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,729
if these consoles are tanking so bad why don't they just drop the price. kinda crazy the ps4 is as much as it is today
Probably because they can't with the consoles in their current config? A 7nm super slim might not be cost effective and so are stuck with what they have?

I'll probably be proved wrong though!

Sales are definitely down, but they’re not abysmal. PS4 is the second best selling home console of all time, after all.
True.
 
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