Quantic Dream is suing two French media outlets over articles on toxic work conditions [Kotaku]

oxymoron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
156
QD is inocent until prove guilty. If this article is a step in the right direction to unveil the truth so be it.
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard used in criminal proceedings. It's not a standard that is, or should be used, to evaluate revelations or reporting (or, in fact, much of anything - it's a bar deliberately set very high!) People aren't going around thinking "unless I see a bulletproof case and carefully disassemble every alibi, I can't ever think someone did something wrong", and it's unhelpful to bring in "innocent until proven guilty" into conversations where it doesn't belong.
 

DigSCCP

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,761
Member has been warned: generalization of an entire forum.
Just as a reminder of context, 2 out of 3 official complaints have been dismissed right off the bat by a jury made of employers and employees (Prud'Hommes).

This move (which indeed has a strong Streisand Effect spiraling possibly happening) might indicate they are confident they are going to win the 3rd and last official complaint.
Who cares what a jury decides?
What really matters is ResetEra's justice and its completely non biased opnions when it comes to Quantic Dream and David Cage.
/s
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894
I checked the scenes and in Beyond it seems like they are used as a conceit to have Aiden communicate with Jodie directly, via a steamed mirror. And I'm sure there was some intent to titilate - and intent that I'm sure Ellen Page was aware of when those scenes were recorded - but I don't think that has anything to do with evil.
I disagree. I believe the intent was to provide for an excuse for a shower scene to exist. Said scene is heavily sexualized, felt like pornography, did not advance the story.
 

Herb Alpert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,061
Paris, France
Le monde is a serious newspaper and William audureau isn't a click baiter.
Of course qd wants to launch a diversion but the integrity of this journalist shouldn't be put into doubt.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,384
Sweden
ugh, i hate that people are going "fake news" because the target is their favourite developer is a target

have more self-respect than to stan for and defend harassment and toxic work culture just because you think you will like a game
 

John Bender

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
So I'm still planning to buy this game but not on day one. In fact, I'm thinking I might buy it used so that QD doesn't get a dime from me and I get to satiate my morbid curiosity about this game in a mostly guilt-free manner. I say "mostly" because the good people that do work there deserve to be paid for their work but it's just hard to justify buying a new copy knowing the kind of company my money is going to.
Sony owns the game. Not Quantic Dream. It means you won't give Sony any money for this game.
Nope. Detroit looks good.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,038
And ? I'm not sure you understand these words.

I'm getting the impression that you think this suing is their response, which isn't the case at all, their response was that they're denying everything but they brought the case to justice only later, after the story was public.
I mean when they need to prove each party was treated equally one side having very little time for a response doesn't seem very fair. I don't really have any idea on the facts besides we know at least some of the accusations are true but we don't know how widespread it is. Clearly there was a work environment problem since one or more employees were allowed to harass others. This seems to be more about their reporting methods and not the facts of the case though.
 

oxymoron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
156
I mean when they need to prove each party was treated equally one side having very little time for a response doesn't seem very fair. I don't really have any idea on the facts besides we know at least some of the accusations are true but we don't know how widespread it is. Clearly there was a work environment problem since one or more employees were allowed to harass others. This seems to be more about their reporting methods and not the facts of the case though.
11 days is a ridiculously long time for response in journalism. "We're going to print in 24 hours and are reaching out for comment" would be reasonable, and even something like 12 or 8 hours wouldn't be out of line in some cases.
 

KORNdog

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,616
it's going to be super interesting to see how this pans out, maybe QD will win the case, not that i'd imagine it would change anyones mind about them as a company.

in the meantime though i'll be buying the game day one. i'll save my disgust for later.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,205
I mean when they need to prove each party was treated equally one side having very little time for a response doesn't seem very fair. I don't really have any idea on the facts besides we know at least some of the accusations are true but we don't know how widespread it is. Clearly there was a work environment problem since one or more employees were allowed to harass others. This seems to be more about their reporting methods and not the facts of the case though.
It's a fair point to make and likely what the judge will decide on, I'm not knowledgeable enough on that subject to know if 11 days is enough or not for them to make a proper answer.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,483
What an insane thing to do. I hope it bites them in the ass.

ugh, i hate that people are going "fake news" because the target is their favourite developer is a target

have more self-respect than to stan for and defend harassment and toxic work culture just because you think you will like a game
Imagine doing this for David Cage of all people.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,038
11 days is a ridiculously long time for response in journalism. "We're going to print in 24 hours and are reaching out for comment" would be reasonable, and even something like 12 or 8 hours wouldn't be out of line in some cases.
Well it was 11 total days I am not sure how many work days were actually in there. That doesn't seem like much time when the newspapers had several months of research time.

It's a fair point to make and likely what the judge will decide on, I'm not knowledgeable enough on that subject to know if 11 days is enough or not for them to make a proper answer.
Yeah however people really shouldn't use this as proof or denial of the accusations from the original piece since it seems to focused on journalistic practices and not the facts of the case at this point. I don't know if they are using this to generate good pr but if so it seems to be against what Sony pr themselves wanted since Cage let this slip himself.

11 days is more than enough to know wether or not you made racist and sexist """jokes""" on some of your employees, committed tax frauds, made your employee crunch and underpay them, ...
It's less then 11 days since that includes weekends but really you think that is enough time to responds to months of investigations? You don't think they need time to actually do an internal investigation themselves and look in HR complaints and various other things?
 
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Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,046
Well it was 11 total days I am not sure how many work days were actually in there. That doesn't seem like much time when the newspapers had several months of research time.
11 days is more than enough to know wether or not you made racist and sexist """jokes""" on some of your employees, committed tax frauds, made your employees crunch and underpaid them, ...
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
874
Well it was 11 total days I am not sure how many work days were actually in there. That doesn't seem like much time when the newspapers had several months of research time.
From what I read earlier in the thread though, it sounds like they did in fact have communication with the QD board during those 11 days regarding the accusations. It also sounds like the QD response was hostile with the journalists.
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
Le monde is a serious newspaper and William audureau isn't a click baiter.
Of course qd wants to launch a diversion but the integrity of this journalist shouldn't be put into doubt.
Serious newspapers print inaccurate or misleading stories everyday of the week. We no longer live in a world where everything is taken at face value and journalists are beyond reproach. If someone has a grievance they should be able to take it further, and allow an independent party to judge.

ugh, i hate that people are going "fake news" because the target is their favourite developer is a target

have more self-respect than to stan for and defend harassment and toxic work culture just because you think you will like a game
Following the allegations many QD employees came out on social media upset at the way they, as individuals, and the studio as a whole, had been portrayed. At least some of the allegations where put down to a former employee who had been dismessed some time ago. Little of this was reported.....so the original story was allowed to fester.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,932
It's less then 11 days since that includes weekends but really you think that is enough time to responds to months of investigations? You don't think they need time to actually do an internal investigation themselves and look in HR complaints and various other things?
It's unimportant at this point.
If QC really wanted to clear their name after a thorough investigation they could request the 3 media to run a paper based on their side of the story, the media literally cannot refuse to run it.
It's called "Droit de réponse"
Instead they decided that suing the media companies is a better course of action which is pretty telling in and of itself.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,038
From what I read earlier in the thread though, it sounds like they did in fact have communication with the QD board during those 11 days regarding the accusations. It also sounds like the QD response was hostile with the journalists.
That doesn't mean they were giving adequate time to do anything. The hostile response could have also been about the small timetable they were given. Clearly a judge will decide if they were treated fairly in this case. Just expecting a company to respond to severe accusations in such a limited time span doesn't seem like the best for the story.

It's unimportant at this point.
If QC really wanted to clear their name after a thorough investigation they could request the 3 media to run a paper based on their side of the story, the media literally cannot refuse to run it.
It's called "Droit de réponse"
Instead they decided that suing the media companies is a better course of action which is pretty telling in and of itself.
But they can never get that initial run with their side of the story. Again this seems to be questioning the process of the story which does seem a little unfair to me going by the amount of time they were given for a response. In the media the studio keeps saying it is a false story but this lawsuit seems to be about completely different things.
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,594
Excuse me but what else are they supposed to do?

They denied the claims and decided to have the court do their own objective investigation.

If your name is trashed in public you don't have 43 solutions.
 

Oticon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
754
I'm just going to see how this plays out, no point in jumping to conclusions right now.
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894
Excuse me but what else are they supposed to do?

They denied the claims and decided to have the court do their own objective investigation.

If your name is trashed in public you don't have 43 solutions.
I suppose one option would be to concede that the allegations are true and work on self improvement.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,932
Excuse me but what else are they supposed to do?

They denied the claims and decided to have the court do their own objective investigation.

If your name is trashed in public you don't have 43 solutions.
True but suing is usually not one of them.
Requiring a right of reply is the preferred course of action.
QC is not interested in having their side of the story told.
 

Yep

Member
Dec 14, 2017
294
Following the allegations many QD employees came out on social media upset at the way they, as individuals, and the studio as a whole, had been portrayed. At least some of the allegations where put down to a former employee who had been dismessed some time ago. Little of this was reported.....so the original story was allowed to fester.
The problem i see in that is, the newspapers claim to have more than one source in than case (20-30 if i remember well) so yeah in these it's possible that there is one or two that have bad blood with QD, but what about all the others?
 
Dec 4, 2017
5,240
Brazil
It's a sad day when people get angry with you when we just ask to wait and see more proof / the judge decision. It is not about taking sides, just know more about it.
 

KRBM

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
682
A) Freedom of press

B) Le Monde is a top quality source with a high level of integrity, incomparable to what's out there in the US.

This reminds me on multiple levels of that game publisher that threatened to sue Digital Foundry.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,038
A) Freedom of press

B) Le Monde is a top quality source, incomparable to what's out there in the US.

This reminds me on multiple levels of that game publisher that threatened Digital Foundry for negative press.
Yes and DF came out and said they should have taken more time before they published the story. The dev was wrong about what they were angry about but DF also apologized that they did not do their full due diligence.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,932
But they can never get that initial run with their side of the story. Again this seems to be questioning the process of the story which does seem a little unfair to me going by the amount of time they were given for a response. In the media the studio keeps saying it is a false story but this lawsuit seems to be about completely different things.
From what I gathered they didn't notify the journalist that they needed more time or were willing to work with the journalists on this subject.
If the story was damaging to them, they wouldn't be suing the media company for no reason they would be communicating about their workplace environment.
 

Mystic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,982
Thanks for the heads up, forgot about this.

Was really considering buying their new game since I liked the last two. I will hold off and wait for the bargain bin or not at all now.

Fuck QD and their shady practices.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,038
From what I gathered they didn't notify the journalist that they needed more time or were willing to work with the journalists on this subject.
If the story was damaging to them, they wouldn't be suing the media company for no reason they would be communicating about their workplace environment.
I am at a disadvantage since I can't read french do you have a source saying they didn't request more time.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
7,659
Good let them prove QD did it and counter sue if QD really have those conditions.you can not just accuse some one without proof .if you have the proof though counter sue and fuck QD up .
Didn't the LeMonde writer have personal issues with David cage ?
 

oxymoron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
156
Excuse me but what else are they supposed to do?

They denied the claims and decided to have the court do their own objective investigation.

If your name is trashed in public you don't have 43 solutions.
Suing for defamation is not a recourse to having false things published. People are allowed to publish claims that end up being false if they did their due diligence, and Le Monde and Mediapart definitely did their due diligence.
 

ghostcrew

Grabbed by the Ghosties
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
10,692
It's a sad day when people get angry with you when we just ask to wait and see more proof / the judge decision. It is not about taking sides, just know more about it.
Fair, I'm waiting on more proof from QD that their working practises aren't gross before I ever consider buying another QD game again too.
 

jrb

Member
Nov 9, 2017
18
Well, Le Monde has accused people without any proof in the past so...

Either way, the game is day one for me.
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,594
I suppose one option would be to concede that the allegations are true and work on self improvement.
The problem is that there are some allegations against specific individuals ( that were dismissed ) which they acknowledged and then the personal attacks on Cage which they firmly deny.

If they feel like a big part of the claims are false or twisted this is not an option.
 

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Suing Le Monde. That's... bold.
Even if they win, I could see this damaging their reputation even more. At least in France.

But hey, I'm not saying QD isn't in the right, maybe they do have a case, we'll see.
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894
The problem is that there are some allegations against specific individuals ( that were dismissed ) which they acknowledged and then the personal attacks on Cage which they firmly deny.

If they feel like a big part of the claims are false or twisted this is not an option.
It doesn't matter what they deny, it matters what is true. I take Le Monde over David Cage.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Stupidity for what?
You weren't there.

And even if the accusation were true, something I doubt, the way this story has been reported is FACTIOUS as hell.
"You weren't there" fucking LMAO.

yeah bruh one of the most renowned newspaper in the entire world does a through investigation that takes several months, but yes, totally "clickbaiters and liars". The absurd amount of arrogance and ignorance is honestly freaking ridiculous.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,946
Suing for defamation is not a recourse to having false things published. People are allowed to publish claims that end up being false if they did their due diligence, and Le Monde and Mediapart definitely did their due diligence.
Yeah, that’s the thing half the people ITT are missing. This is about reporting methods, it’s not there to litigate what’s reported.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
874
That doesn't mean they were giving adequate time to do anything. The hostile response could have also been about the small timetable they were given. Clearly a judge will decide if they were treated fairly in this case. Just expecting a company to respond to severe accusations in such a limited time span doesn't seem like the best for the story.
Obviously I don't know how those conversations went, or what the QD response was, but all three publications decided to publish following. They will have their chance to respond in court, which I'm sure they will.

I'm not in France, nor familiar with French laws, but I do know that when a (negative) article was about to be published about my company (a large one at that), that we were given less than 24 hours notice.