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jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,447
It isn't a bastard game, and the chat starts and ends with being Haunted by a Neutral that never disappears.

I don't personally see it also being a faked costume by the mod.

Granted this isn't a cop green check, but for me, it's a solid town green check.
I don't think we can 100% assume Bojack is town. Its easily the most likely option based on both role and behavior but it is not Confirmed and a costume itself is already Trickery. That costume element combined with ATP erasing his role PM we cant count out shenanigans just because the game is not bastard.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,608
I don't think we can 100% assume Bojack is town. Its easily the most likely option based on both role and behavior but it is not Confirmed and a costume itself is already Trickery. That costume element combined with ATP erasing his role PM we cant count out shenanigans just because the game is not bastard.
He erased his role when it was announced he LEFT THE GAME, it was posted in complete form when he won.

You're welcome.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,425
Oh good we have some claims to work with. I'm too lazy to remember why wee's N2 check failed but it would've been easy to check Bojack with her top scum read, no?
 
OP
OP
Fanto

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
[He/Him] Verelios|Vere - UTC-6 has replaced A Wild Ambulance Appears
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
Hi, Hi, so from when I skimmed D1 and D2 I guess we're getting completely eaten right now. Can anyone give me a rundown on the day's highlights?
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
If I'm reading the thread right, we should have a very decent chance of finding Scum here:

vote: LP
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
Hi, Hi, so from when I skimmed D1 and D2 I guess we're getting completely eaten right now. Can anyone give me a rundown on the day's highlights?
We're only *checks* 10 hours into the day, how many highlights can there be to catch up on :thisisfine:

So, yesterday ATP claimed a red check on Neki (Brocolli, Town, Stubborn Voter)

Overnight Leo died (Worf, Town, Loved).
ATP left the game (no flip).
Randomless subbed in for Yuta.

We discussed/argued about what ATP leaving the game meant for a bit.
Zipped was "sure" ATP was not targeted for a nk.

Bo announced the red check had come from a chat he shared with ATP and an invitee. It was a parity check between Sneeks (N1 death, Town Gladiator) and Neki that came back no match.

Wee guessed/worked out ATPs wincon, helped him achieve it, so he flipped (Neutral, redirector, technobabble blocker, picard haunter, general annoyance).

Bo revealed himself as Picard, said he invites people to chat.
Night based invites, presumably shot based because he said his shot was refunded last night.
Chat seems to persist with same invitees so I assume more neighbour than gossip.
Wee confirms his Picard flavour, chat inviting ability.

Wee revealed herself as their invitee, claimed parity cop.

Wee further revealed ATP claimed he redirected Sneeks N1.

Amby revealed his role before he subbed out. He's done that to you before so that should feel familiar.
Also his targets and results (HP confident, ATP jovial)

What else.
HP is a double voter, claims two shot (1 remaining), works in acronym time, K'Ehlyer.
Malus and LP have been scum reading each other for three days.
Rando posted a huge read list and once I'm more awake I'll actually read it.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
Given that you are in the ready room, along with wee, I know that your backing up ATP wasn't part of a scum ploy.

but you two being in there doesn't stop that room from still containing scum. I mean purely speculation, since you are all wearing costumes, your win con could be different than the appearance you are giving in the ready room.

in short, you not lying is good and made me unvote, but while it does confirm at least some portion of your flavor it does not confirm any sort of garaunteed 100% certified fresh town.

let's find and condemn some scum and turn this lean into a full on town core.

or you are locutus of borg masquerading as Picard and leading us all down the primrose path but that's flavor talking.

let's keep being truthful and solve this game
Me outing myself was to try to get town together so we can pull in the right direction. It would be good to get read lists from everyone so we can see where we all want to go.

I would say HP or Blarg would probably be where I look next. Hoping to do so tomorrow (irl).
Interesting. What is it about Blarg specifically? They're being their usual unhelpful self - do you see it as particularly scummy this game?
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
For my own personal read list (not in any particular order):

Town lean
Wee
Zipped
Ambulance (now Vere)
jman
Fate
Rando

Null
Anex
Blarg
malus

(If you had to force me, I'd maybe put Anex and malus in town reads for now, but very lightly so)

Scum lean
LP
Ephi
HP
Royal

This is just based on my memory of how people have been and my reactions, not done a full ISO on anyone yet. But my POE is obviously on the scum lean section.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
We're only *checks* 10 hours into the day, how many highlights can there be to catch up on :thisisfine:

So, yesterday ATP claimed a red check on Neki (Brocolli, Town, Stubborn Voter)

Overnight Leo died (Worf, Town, Loved).
ATP left the game (no flip).
Randomless subbed in for Yuta.

We discussed/argued about what ATP leaving the game meant for a bit.
Zipped was "sure" ATP was not targeted for a nk.

Bo announced the red check had come from a chat he shared with ATP and an invitee. It was a parity check between Sneeks (N1 death, Town Gladiator) and Neki that came back no match.

Wee guessed/worked out ATPs wincon, helped him achieve it, so he flipped (Neutral, redirector, technobabble blocker, picard haunter, general annoyance).

Bo revealed himself as Picard, said he invites people to chat.
Night based invites, presumably shot based because he said his shot was refunded last night.
Chat seems to persist with same invitees so I assume more neighbour than gossip.
Wee confirms his Picard flavour, chat inviting ability.

Wee revealed herself as their invitee, claimed parity cop.

Wee further revealed ATP claimed he redirected Sneeks N1.

Amby revealed his role before he subbed out. He's done that to you before so that should feel familiar.
Also his targets and results (HP confident, ATP jovial)

What else.
HP is a double voter, claims two shot (1 remaining), works in acronym time, K'Ehlyer.
Malus and LP have been scum reading each other for three days.
Rando posted a huge read list and once I'm more awake I'll actually read it.

srnPRce.gif


TY for this
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
LP has been getting flank for their play this game, as being shallow IMO and not having the same attiude town LP has with solving
Here's the post that really GOT me before, with LP.

in fact, HP provided reads on FOUR players, and TWO of them were selected by someone else who pinged him to comment on those particular people.

so for LP to think that counts as "reads" indicates he wasn't reading the game properly, or he is defending HP for other reasons. If he isn't a scummate with HP tho, he could in theory be lazy town i guess, which is why my order of operations was HP first, it gives me solid info on both neki and LP. And some others who switched votes at the last minute to kill launch, like blarg etc.

Anyway, unless someone comes forward, I will continue on the assumption that ATP is the cop that got a fake red somehow, and town is now in further trouble without him.

Neki flipping town puts some people back into the spotlight, that's for sure.

He also said "to my crew" which I assume is town, and then posted a gif that said "stay alive".

Anyway I'm going to do some rereading and will be back later. Let me know if Zipped ever decides to elaborate on his soft claim.
I meant what to do in the short term(next 24 hours)
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
We're only *checks* 10 hours into the day, how many highlights can there be to catch up on :thisisfine:

So, yesterday ATP claimed a red check on Neki (Brocolli, Town, Stubborn Voter)

Overnight Leo died (Worf, Town, Loved).
ATP left the game (no flip).
Randomless subbed in for Yuta.

We discussed/argued about what ATP leaving the game meant for a bit.
Zipped was "sure" ATP was not targeted for a nk.

Bo announced the red check had come from a chat he shared with ATP and an invitee. It was a parity check between Sneeks (N1 death, Town Gladiator) and Neki that came back no match.

Wee guessed/worked out ATPs wincon, helped him achieve it, so he flipped (Neutral, redirector, technobabble blocker, picard haunter, general annoyance).

Bo revealed himself as Picard, said he invites people to chat.
Night based invites, presumably shot based because he said his shot was refunded last night.
Chat seems to persist with same invitees so I assume more neighbour than gossip.
Wee confirms his Picard flavour, chat inviting ability.

Wee revealed herself as their invitee, claimed parity cop.

Wee further revealed ATP claimed he redirected Sneeks N1.

Amby revealed his role before he subbed out. He's done that to you before so that should feel familiar.
Also his targets and results (HP confident, ATP jovial)

What else.
HP is a double voter, claims two shot (1 remaining), works in acronym time, K'Ehlyer.
Malus and LP have been scum reading each other for three days.
Rando posted a huge read list and once I'm more awake I'll actually read it.
That's quite a lot, and oh joy. Did ATP mention who he redirected the shot to?
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,608
That's quite a lot, and oh joy. Did ATP mention who he redirected the shot to?
Sawneeks. but she died that nnight anyway.

I believe he said it before the flip posted. Not quite certain on exact time of day.

Anyway, if you would please use your power on wee tonight, that'd be great. To see if you get a 'lying' response. It should help reassure people.
 

Royal_Flush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
879
Wee targets Sawneeks (Town) and Neki (Town) and receives the result "different alignments". This means one of four things:
a) Sawneeks got switched with Scum
b) Neki got switched with Scum
c) Wee gets redirected by other means
d) Wee was lying

For d) I would like to consult BoJack Horseman since he shared the chat: From Wee's behavior, how many percent are you sure she is telling the truth? I think it would be a super weird gambit for Scum to pull off, but I don't have access to the history of how stuff developed in the ready room...

Since Wee's ability requires two targets c) would be kinda complicated in terms of command structure (see e.g. ATP's flip who only could send in one target; which of the two would be replaced?). I can't ultimately exclude it but I think it's very unlikely a redirect in the ATP sense would work at all on the role.

Which leaves b) and a). Sawneeks died N1. Assuming this was the Scum kill, a) is out. So Neki must have been switched. If you are a Switcher / bus driver / however we call it nowadays, and switched Neki with somebody, you should come forward because your second target has a red check on them. If nobody comes forward, it was probably a Scum switcher...
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,608
Oh, to whom.

No I don't think we managed to get that detail out of him, but even if she set off her ability, I assume it gets canceled at her death.

Maybe he'll say now, if he's not too busy playing amogus.
 

Royal_Flush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
879
Sawneeks. but she died that nnight anyway.

I believe he said it before the flip posted. Not quite certain on exact time of day.

Anyway, if you would please use your power on wee tonight, that'd be great. To see if you get a 'lying' response. It should help reassure people.
Wait, what? I thought he redirected Sneeks, not redirected *to* Sneeks? If he redirected *to* Sneeks, who did he redirect?

Also, why are you speaking of yourself in third person? And what makes you assume that 'lying' is a valid response Vere can get? Jovial and confident aren't really on a lie/truth spectrum...
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,608
Wait, what? I thought he redirected Sneeks, not redirected *to* Sneeks? If he redirected *to* Sneeks, who did he redirect?

Also, why are you speaking of yourself in third person? And what makes you assume that 'lying' is a valid response Vere can get? Jovial and confident aren't really on a lie/truth spectrum...
1. I misunderstood the question due to lackk of caffeine input.
2. Because that is the first 3 seasons worth of what Deanna gets to say on the bridge, and every time, it's a "no shit sherlock" situation. I'm being referential. And no, he didn't SAY he's Deanna.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
Sawneeks. but she died that nnight anyway.

I believe he said it before the flip posted. Not quite certain on exact time of day.

Anyway, if you would please use your power on wee tonight, that'd be great. To see if you get a 'lying' response. It should help reassure people.

Does it matter? He redirected Sneeks, which I would assume didn't use her ability (At least I wouldn't set off a oneshot thunderdome N1...)
Oh, I was wondering why no one was asking, I mistakenly read it as ATP redirecting Wee's shot on Saw. Makes more sense if the tatget was Saw herself.
 

Royal_Flush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
879
So, we kill HP or LP today? I would like this very much. I'm voting LP right now but am happy with either.
I assume this means you have a "different alignment" result on your N2 check which was L_P and HP? Would be nice if you spelled that out next time for those of us who are still on vacation :P

If yes, we obviously have to vote there, but I also want to ISO a couple of more people which I'll hopefully have time for tomorrow morning. Right now I gotta leave for a beer tasting.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
The Dominion is un-scannable by this Empath, but since they're a DS9 threat, they probably aren't the mafia team in a TNG theme.

I expect Borg or Romulans. I forget what results she gets from Borg - too much input maybe? Ephi? But Romulans absolutely have emotion.
In Q Who she got the very wordy "We're not dealing with an individual mind. They don't have a single leader. It's the collective minds of all of them." but that's a bit... much for a flavour cop result 👀

Next Gen never did mirror folks (in canon at least), did it?

He was picking on me, I can be petty back
767883192958713916.png
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
We can't just ignore this Ephi. Something really weird happened one way or the other. Trying to avoid the subject isn't a good look.

Her response to my post doesn't exactly fill me with confidence either
Sorry, I wanted to go back to this ever so briefly.
Why?
Why was my decision to declare that I didn't think we should waste our time discussing The Gone Person not a good look?

(I don't mind it quite so much now we actually have a flip, at least we're working on some information now as opposed to endless hypotheticals, but it's still eh).

I'd just watched HP/Jman/Zipped declaring him probably scum, and considering I personally doubted that (because yes, admittedly, I was also participating in the waste of time) the idea that people might try and go forward from there as if he was was... undesirable. I thought people would be going down the wrong path if they did.
Further, I thought focusing on Him at all was a bad plan because I really thought we might not ever know what he was so we were just going to tie ourselves in knots with a big distracting distraction we couldn't confirm in any direction.

Think about it this way. If not for Wee working out his wincon and force feeding it to him to get him to flip we wouldn't know what happened, what he is, or what his abilities were.
Now it turns out he admitted Neutrality in their chat so Bo/Wee could have gone "Yeah he said something about that, don't worry about it" if they got sick of us spending our time on Him, but pretend he hadn't, pretend they didn't, pretend they wanted to hide wee a little longer.

So now you have ATP and his weird exit. Nobody knows what happened.
But you know what he wasn't? Scum. You know who knew that? The scum team.
And now if town decide to blow their time speculating about what happened to him they're not spending their time working out who scum is, and that gives them free reign to join in with all sorts of speculation on something completely pointless and look productive doing so.

Hey look, you know who showed up and starting posting actual things today?
Blarg.
You know what Blarg's content decided to focus on?
considering Neki's Role having to select a player to tunnel the upcoming Day, maybe ATP's worked similarly in that he had to pre-select a player that would be voted out the upcoming Day, and maybe depending on whether said player flipped as Town or Mafia, something would happen

In this case ATP left the game after Neki flipped as Town but I can't tell if that's a good or not. Maybe ATP already lost the game for himself (as a Neutral) but we for some reason don't get to see his info yet, because there's some condition that can still be fulfilled to get him back in?

Maybe there's somebody specific we have to vote out Today (like a final nomination that he could do before leaving, in which case he picked somebody for Today last Night) and getting that player out Today would get him back?
"What if ATP's powers were this, what if this is what happened, what if we can get him back if we do y"
What if Horseman is scum and the chat's "parity cop" is also a scum and they convinced ATP to announce the fake red-check for them as a scapegoat and now that he's done their dirty work they vaporised him
"What if the chat used him as a scapegoat"

Not scum hunting. Oooh, let's look at ATP.

LP
Welp.

So ATP was likely a hunter, since Neki flipped town and he left the game.
Since he could come back and isn't dead, it could be a scum ability to put someone in stasis for a day or two.
Anyway, unless someone comes forward, I will continue on the assumption that ATP is the cop that got a fake red somehow, and town is now in further trouble without him.

Neki flipping town puts some people back into the spotlight, that's for sure.

Whole series of ATP related possibilities.
(although admittedly, deciding to stop looking at ATP at the end there).
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,601
End of D1 votes:

Launch:
BoJack (claimed Picard with good evidence, likely town)
LP
Neki (confirmed town)
HP
Blarg
anex

HP:
wee (claimed Parity Cop)
Ephi
Leo (confirmed town)
jman
ATP (confirmed neutral)

LP:
Royal
Launch (confirmed town)
malus

malus:
Sneeks (confirmed town)
Ambu

Neki:
Shirou

Blarg:
Yuta (confirmed town ;) )

jman:
Zipped

======================================

I feel like it is likely that there is at least 1 scum on the Launch wagon, regardless of HP's alignment. Scum would serve to gain from the confusion involved of the last minute wagon switch. Just look at how town!VA's wagons were used by scum in Mafioso to see how this could be beneficial. That would be one of LP, Blarg or anex, disregarding the confirmed/semi-confirmed players and HP himself. If HP is scum, I could absolutely see another scummie on the Launch wagon with him. I am currently townreading anex so I wouldn't look there first.

On the HP wagon, going off my current reads I would say it looks clean. I am currently believing wee's story of what happened with ATP and BoJack. Helping out a neutral as town feels very on-brand for wee after just doing so in Mafioso. The manner in which she has claimed her Parity Cop role also feels like town!wee. I am wary of being lead astray from relying on meta here however. Scum fake claiming a cop isn't usually too useful. If their check is wrong and they can't prove it they'll likely be eliminated, but scum fake claiming a Parity Cop gives them a larger degree of maneuverability to "get things wrong" so to speak. Yeah comparing Neki and Sneeks went wrong, but there could be a switcher. Who's next, comparing LP and HP as it seems she is hinting at? If they both flip town the jig will be up, but trading wee's life for 3 townies and wasting 4 days of votes in the process would probably be seen as a worthwhile trade for scum. Despite all that paranoia, my gut currently says that wee is just actually town right now.

Continuing on HP's wagon, I am townreading Ephi and jman to varying degrees as well. So if I believe this wagon is clean and it was a close one, I feel like that means it is more likely that HP is scum, because the scum team wouldn't want to bus that hard D1. They could always come back and bus HP on D2 to earn some cred if needed.

It is likely there is also scum among the off wagon voters. That's Royal, malus, Ambu, Shirou, Zipped, and myself technically. I know I'm town, and I believe Shirou is definitely town at the moment. I think Zipped and malus are town as well but I'm a little less confident compared to Shirou. That leaves Royal and Ambu/Vere. Ambu's claim was a bit weird to me, but Flavour Cop is generally a weird role to me in general. I can't help but read the claim as one that the gamerunner gives to you as a fake claim in scum chat but perhaps that is paranoia speaking.

My conclusion is that there is likely scum among HP, Blarg, LP, Ambu/Vere, and Royal. I'd prefer to eliminate HP before Vere, so we could see if the flavour cop result was accurate. If HP is scum and the result was accurate to HP's real flip, then I would consider Vere soft-cleared.

I'll go here for now:
Vote: HPSauce
 
OP
OP
Fanto

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
==== DAY 3 VOTES ====
Day Start

Lone_Prodigy (3 votes)
jman1954goat - #1,250
weemadarthur - #1,289
malus - #1,410

HPSauce (1 votes)
Randomless - #1,437

BoJack Horseman (0 votes)
Zippedpinhead - #1,253 #1,395
Randomless - #1,285 #1,362

AllThingsPurple (0 votes)
HPSauce - #1,228 #1,239

Not voting: Royal_Flush, Ephidel, Verelios, Zippedpinhead, Blargonaut, Lone_Prodigy, Anexanhume, BoJack Horseman, FateShirou, HPSauce

Post Counts:
weemadarthur: 59 FateShirou: 33 Blargonaut: 29 BoJack Horseman: 26 Zippedpinhead: 25 HPSauce: 19 jman1954goat: 16 Randomless: 15 Ephidel: 13 Lone_Prodigy: 9 malus: 8 Verelios: 5 Royal_Flush: 4 Anexanhume: 3 A WIld Ambulance Appears: 2


Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
Wee targets Sawneeks (Town) and Neki (Town) and receives the result "different alignments". This means one of four things:
a) Sawneeks got switched with Scum
b) Neki got switched with Scum
c) Wee gets redirected by other means
d) Wee was lying

For d) I would like to consult BoJack Horseman since he shared the chat: From Wee's behavior, how many percent are you sure she is telling the truth? I think it would be a super weird gambit for Scum to pull off, but I don't have access to the history of how stuff developed in the ready room...

Since Wee's ability requires two targets c) would be kinda complicated in terms of command structure (see e.g. ATP's flip who only could send in one target; which of the two would be replaced?). I can't ultimately exclude it but I think it's very unlikely a redirect in the ATP sense would work at all on the role.

Which leaves b) and a). Sawneeks died N1. Assuming this was the Scum kill, a) is out. So Neki must have been switched. If you are a Switcher / bus driver / however we call it nowadays, and switched Neki with somebody, you should come forward because your second target has a red check on them. If nobody comes forward, it was probably a Scum switcher...
Wee seems very genuine, excited and earnest, but I don't have any meta on them as scum. Very chatty and happy, doesn't read as scum trying to watch their words.

I will say, if their story about comparing Sneeks and Neki is a lie, they came up with it very fast. They told us about their read within 15 minutes of being allowed in the chat. So it seems really unlikely that they came up with this weirdly elaborate lie in 15 minutes to get out Neki of all people, when they could have pushed for it much slower. Me and ATP had already talked about how much we didn't trust Neki, so it wouldn't have been that hard to get us to vote there.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
Wee seems very genuine, excited and earnest, but I don't have any meta on them as scum. Very chatty and happy, doesn't read as scum trying to watch their words.

I will say, if their story about comparing Sneeks and Neki is a lie, they came up with it very fast. They told us about their read within 15 minutes of being allowed in the chat. So it seems really unlikely that they came up with this weirdly elaborate lie in 15 minutes to get out Neki of all people, when they could have pushed for it much slower. Me and ATP had already talked about how much we didn't trust Neki, so it wouldn't have been that hard to get us to vote there.
Since you were very involved, did anything or anyone stick out to you during the ATP has left the ship discussion? Before he won of course.
 

HPSauce

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,118
U.K.
Sorry, I wanted to go back to this ever so briefly.
Why?
Why was my decision to declare that I didn't think we should waste our time discussing The Gone Person not a good look?
For all we knew he was scum and would return to the game later. His last post read like an open wolf. Trying to prevent that discussion made me question your intentions because I felt considering ATP's interactions was a good way to potentially weed out other scum. Obviously that's irrelevant now but at the time I honestly thought he was scum and so you being against that discussion was making me suspicious
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
For all we knew he was scum and would return to the game later. His last post read like an open wolf. Trying to prevent that discussion made me question your intentions because I felt considering ATP's interactions was a good way to potentially weed out other scum. Obviously that's irrelevant now but at the time I honestly thought he was scum and so you being against that discussion was making me suspicious
Your first thought upon seeing ATP left the game is that he was scum?
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,425
ATP was neutral so any reaction to his past actions was NAI. You could call it busywork but what else were people going to talk about at day start, besides mourning over Leo?
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
You're seriously telling me that last post he made didn't seem like an open wolf?
Not...really associated with only scum for me, especially when he left the game. Leaving their teammates would be a hard ask. I can't think of a situation where a scum member exits the game publicly like that, that isn't caused by another player's ability who also keeps mum about it.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
Since you were very involved, did anything or anyone stick out to you during the ATP has left the ship discussion? Before he won of course.
I'd have to reread through, but nothing sticks out that I can remember.

I see Vere's logic though, how does exiting the game help scum as a power? Either they don't come back, robbing their team of an essential vote, or they do come back, and immediately get jumped on. I don't know what good utility there really is to it. It's all flavour speculation, but I don't think my mind would jump to scum for that move.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,425
I can see calling ATP scum a scum ploy. He left the game without a flip and suggesting he was scum gives town some false hope. Plus they had 2 hours to plan the reaction.
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,747
Sorry it's been an insane day today. Finishing those Halloween signs, I'll stay up to date and try to get some updated reads tonight
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,914
Maryland
Sorry, I've not been posting as much as I would have liked this day. I went back to day start to re-read everything that has transpired today to understand the tone of reactions pre and post the reveal of ATP's true nature.

The story seems very self-consistent, and BoJack's role is something I can't imagine being anything but town-aligned. ATP's actions make sense within the context of trying to help town as a neutral to me as well. I can even contextualize the feud with HP as something that makes sense for ATP's role. Inciting a feud would make him more likely to be quoted in the aftermath of a day.

What the trio doesn't seem to guarantee is the alignment of wee. Looking at what I assume was a Neki alignment swap, it only made sense from a scum perspective as there was a lot of attention on Neki in that time period. However, wee sharing a scum-chat could have guaranteed such a swap happened. Thus, it's also possible that wee could be dishonest about their role. They could have said Neki had a red-check if scum aligned and almost guaranteed that would come true if Neki was eliminated (outside of being neutral). Given wee knew ATP was already neutral from the chat, that would probably even give further confidence Neki wasn't neutral. Moreover, they'd know not to target ATP with a NK.

None of this is to say that I suspect wee, but merely that I see a scenario in which most of what we've been told is true with mafia alignment being able to spoil the crucial results.

As for Leo's elimination, I hesitate to read too much into their pre-demise reads. Scum using those as a basis to eliminate Leo is a pretty risky move. They are simply the thoughts of one Town person who doesn't know the alignment of N-1 remaining players. Additionally, they were operating on less information than we have now.

One thing I've been debating is the utility of publishing a full town vs. mafia read list. I'm genuinely curious what the opinions about it are. I am all in favor of doing a scum-read list, but what I fear about town-reads is when they are wrong, they can be used as leverage against the person who posted them since they've unwittingly become chummy with scum. I say this partly because I am getting extremely strong town vibes from some today, but I hesitate to post those because the tangible benefit of doing so seems low. Part of it is just not viewing my own thoughts as particularly more valuable than anyone else's.

All that being said, I am having trouble coming up with new reads that are distinct from my feelings yesterday. I can certainly sympathize with the logic for LP, but I don't think a wagon helps anyone here. Therefore, I am going to resurrect a prior person of interest and Vote: malus. Why? Well, I see a post history of crowd-sourcing votes or actions (facilitating others for blame if actions do not work out). I also see a lot of declarations that seem to be for appearance and lack sustaining evidence. Referencing your "gut" for feelings and votes only works the first day or two in my opinion. I have a few more thoughts here, but I'd like to see how the rest of the day plays out.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,914
Maryland
Also, we've got less than a day left and a lot of people not committing to votes. This is an interesting standoff we have brewing, and I'm mostly taking it as people being as confused as I am as to what new information we have over yesterday. I also find it amusing how aggressively many were beating that HP drum only to seem to have forgotten it existed by today.

I think we need to start getting some votes down so we have time to digest others' opinions and have appropriate queries and discussions on them.