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Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
(Note: I'm not referencing "he killed Verelios for us" part as that has been covered already)
Not really imprecise as much as just outright assuming Fanto killed Vere (which is not the only possibility). Lays the foundation for the following posts.
(Also don't really agree with the bolded, but that's debatable).



Fanto flipped neutral, not town.



The fight between Chuggs and Brazil was started by Chuggs. (This was pointed out by Aeleus while I was writing).

To me, those sound like twisting facts to suit what you want to say. Doesn't necessarily mark you as scum, but they rang my bell (and thus explain my gut feeling).
Are you implying then that Faddy and Chuggs orchestrated/manipulated the fight with Brazil? That Chuggs started a fight with Brazil to mimic what Brazil had done in a previous game? Or that Faddy is trying to capitalise on the fight?

Can't help but feel that this seems a bit of a stretch.
 

Olinad

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,518
Are you implying then that Faddy and Chuggs orchestrated/manipulated the fight with Brazil? That Chuggs started a fight with Brazil to mimic what Brazil had done in a previous game? Or that Faddy is trying to capitalise on the fight?

Can't help but feel that this seems a bit of a stretch.

I am not. You asked for the reasons why I had a bad gut feeling on him, I answered.
My premise was, those are signals that make me want to investigate more as they could be purposeful or just honest imprecisions.
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
The turmoil vote is interesting. I guess with Fanto flipping town there is most likely scum within Chuggs, Sae and Aeleus. That is a safe vote for scum at the time. There could be scum later in the vote with VA or you.

Is there anyone you feel strongly about in the vote?

For me since scum killed in the vote I expect there is only 2 of them in the vote and the rest are outside.
Sorry, I think I missed this.

weemad and saenima are the ones I'm not overly keen on at the moment (I do want a proper reread of saenima though because I didn't realise they were so high in the post count so I've clearly missed a post or two). I did think aeleus as well but didn't realise they'd said they'd be absent due to not feeling well so willing to let that slide plus I actually feel like a couple of their posts today have seemed better.

I agree though that VA is worth a look. They've been low on my radar but today they've seemed evasive.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,780
You keep saying (paraphrasing) "hey we gotta watch those turmoil voters, there could be scum in there" but then not actually suggesting anyone
Keep saying? I said it a single time. Only reason is because of this post:

Okay, so here's what we do know. The sudden Turmoil rush wasn't a scum response to Vere gaining traction because Vere was town. Likewise the Vere rush wasn't a response to the Turmoil vote because Turmoil was town.
It's a valid response for me to point out that the Turmoil votes still could have been a scum response, and why so. That's it. Nice and simple. Never brought it up again except with you when directly questioned about it.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Now that I'm not stepping on the answer that I was expecting anyway. Faddy saying that Fanto flipped town is about as damning as me confusing names. You're right Olinad that he obviously flipped neutral and not town but for the purposes of trying to find scum, Fanto is just town too. He had no special knowledge of who they were (nor them of him) and the extent of the difference in play is that Fanto had to play a bit of both sides in that he didn't want to piss off town and get lynched or puss off scum and get NK'd. From a reads standpoint he was still scum hunting even if it wasn't low effort hunting.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Now that I'm not stepping on the answer that I was expecting anyway. Faddy saying that Fanto flipped town is about as damning as me confusing names. You're right Olinad that he obviously flipped neutral and not town but for the purposes of trying to find scum, Fanto is just town too. He had no special knowledge of who they were (nor them of him) and the extent of the difference in play is that Fanto had to play a bit of both sides in that he didn't want to piss off town and get lynched or puss off scum and get NK'd. From a reads standpoint he was still scum hunting even if it wasn't low effort hunting.

Was* low effort hunting
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
Keep saying? I said it a single time. Only reason is because of this post:


It's a valid response for me to point out that the Turmoil votes still could have been a scum response, and why so. That's it. Nice and simple. Never brought it up again except with you when directly questioned about it.
Apologies, when I said "keep saying", I'm meaning this circle we appear to be skipping round at the moment.

tumblr_nkht4tkhMt1qiohboo5_400.gif


I'm a bit confused as to how this turned into an issue. I was only trying to find out who you thought was scum on the turmoil vote since you said you wanted to look there.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,439
São Paulo, Brazil
My Edge vote was 100% for fun to cause a 3-way tie. I knew I'd change it at some point. But then someone swooped in pretty quick after and broke the tie.
I don't buy this.

First of all, creating a 3-way tie "for fun" isn't in town's best interest. There are situations in which doing something like that could be useful to draw reactions - but just doing it and then not having a better explanation for it after the fact is a no-no.

But, alright. You're saying you voted like that "for fun" - but your own wording betrays that explanation. When you unvoted, you said you weren't feeling that vote "anymore with how things [were] shaping up." So... that means you were feeling that vote before that.

UNVOTE

No put in this vote anymore with how things are shaping up.
I think you voted like that to avoid taking a stance against turmoil.

I find that the best thing to do to find scum when both big D1 lynch candidates end up flipping town is to look back and see who was acting weird around both candidates, hesitating to put down a vote. Your posts were the ones that best fit that description.

Not only did you vote for no reason for an unlikely candidate, but you also felt the need to distance yourself from both the turmoil and the Verelios vote:
I'll throw my two cents in and agree with folks finding the train on Turmoil a little odd. And rapid-fire. Is Wee the only one who has come out and given a solid explanation on their vote?

I really wanted to park my vote over on Verelios in response. The train on Turmoil took off out of the station very shortly after Turmoil's vote on Verelios to protect himself. That's an easy move for scum to jump on and pin as their reason and protect one of their own. Or just an easy move to jump on in general, even if not protecting one of their own. But reading Verelios' posts, and I'm not getting any scum vibes. Reads like a town trying to help poke the conversation and look for scum.
You didn't like the pile-up on turmoil, but didn't like the biggest alternative either.

And then, when you finally decide to vote against turmoil, you do so by agreeing with wee's case and meekly over-explaining it.

You preemptively list out the reasons for why people could look at you badly for this vote, indicating that you were very concerned about possibly getting heat for it:

I should have been more open about it, but I've been silently agreeing with most of what you've been posting about Turmoil. I didn't want to seem too bandwagony though, especially because I've been quiet. Seems odd to be completely quiet and then pop in after you've laid it all out to say, "Yeah, what they said!" But that is where I'm at now. I've never played with Turmoil myself, but I would expect anyone called out as much as them to step in here and start laying down some counter-punches.

VOTE: turmoil7

And finally, you spent the rest of the phase vocalizing that you felt bad for voting turmoil, but that he didn't leave you a choice with how he was acting:

At this point though, I feel bad railing on Turmoil because surely there is real life shit keeping him away (hopefully nothing serious). Seems abnormal for someone to be gone this long with no posts while they are getting piled on. I don't think this is scum sitting back not sure what to do, and just trying to skate by. Of course, he could still be scum AND busy as hell in real life.
At this point I'm not moving my vote off of him without him piping up and giving good reason, so definitely not trying to convince folks of anything. It's more the lame parent in me thinking, "I hope everything is okay...." for no good reason.
Agreed. Turmoil had a chance to defend himself, and he came out with guns bla---urmm...hrmmm...well, he kind of just lied down and asked to be beaten to death with wooden spoons. My vote is pretty concrete at this point.
You spent more posts justifying and excusing your votes (or lack thereof), that ended up being based on arguments from others, than scumhunting or questioning other players.

It's hard for me not to see this behavior as that of scum. You seemed more concerned with how you would look doing things than with what you were doing.

VOTE: Vincent Alexander
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,780
Apologies, when I said "keep saying", I'm meaning this circle we appear to be skipping round at the moment.

tumblr_nkht4tkhMt1qiohboo5_400.gif


I'm a bit confused as to how this turned into an issue. I was only trying to find out who you thought was scum on the turmoil vote since you said you wanted to look there.
Honestly, I didn't get that far into thinking who might have been the scum pushing simply because I didn't know if that was the case. Only that it was a possibility. But I put a little bookmark on the push knowing it was a possibility. So let's say we get a few more days in and any of the previous Turmoil voters are looking fishy (You, me, Wee, Sparky, etc. etc)? Again, it's just another piece. Nothing concrete. But something in the back of my mind.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I don't buy this.

First of all, creating a 3-way tie "for fun" isn't in town's best interest. There are situations in which doing something like that could be useful to draw reactions - but just doing it and then not having a better explanation for it after the fact is a no-no.

But, alright. You're saying you voted like that "for fun" - but your own wording betrays that explanation. When you unvoted, you said you weren't feeling that vote "anymore with how things [were] shaping up." So... that means you were feeling that vote before that.


I think you voted like that to avoid taking a stance against turmoil.

I find that the best thing to do to find scum when both big D1 lynch candidates end up flipping town is to look back and see who was acting weird around both candidates, hesitating to put down a vote. Your posts were the ones that best fit that description.

Not only did you vote for no reason for an unlikely candidate, but you also felt the need to distance yourself from both the turmoil and the Verelios vote:

You didn't like the pile-up on turmoil, but didn't like the biggest alternative either.

And then, when you finally decide to vote against turmoil, you do so by agreeing with wee's case and meekly over-explaining it.

You preemptively list out the reasons for why people could look at you badly for this vote, indicating that you were very concerned about possibly getting heat for it:



And finally, you spent the rest of the phase vocalizing that you felt bad for voting turmoil, but that he didn't leave you a choice with how he was acting:




You spent more posts justifying and excusing your votes (or lack thereof), that ended up being based on arguments from others, than scumhunting or questioning other players.

It's hard for me not to see this behavior as that of scum. You seemed more concerned with how you would look doing things than with what you were doing.

VOTE: Vincent Alexander

I stopped reading halfway through cause I had to quote it for the hot take. That unvote quote you pulled. That some real...uh....let's go with editorializing for you to leap to that logic line. If the point was to make a tie and the tie was instantly broken, then his unvote still makes sense, there would be no point anymore.

I do agree that VA cares more about Edge than he wants to admit or realizes (I voted Edge today and he seemed to be the only one who cared to follow up on the vote) but let's cut trying to add context that isn't there.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,439
São Paulo, Brazil
Zeke, gotham - why y'all so interested in policing my claim? It's my role to manage. I didn't see you down on full role claims on day one, but y'all are desperate to think poorly of me for claiming a modifier after it stopped being useful, at least in part. Whatcha afraid of? That I put myself in front of you getting shot at night? The 'filthy' modifier would have kept me safe so most likely if there's another role relating to these things, I'd be unsafe from the next one. Yet I considered that and still claimed the modifier.
This is an interesting point. A partial claim like the one you did is way easier for scum to paint as anti-town/selfish than an actual role claim.

I see what you did as saying you had a bp. Now you won't waste a scums power on you.
No better way to do busywork than to accuse others of doing busywork by making assumptions (only for you to turn around and make your own assumptions.)

1. Accusing me of doing something scummy when I was specifically asking a question
I'll give you this one as I'm usually better than that. But

2. His comment about the scum thread at the start of the day. Maybe what I said is similar to what he posted in the scum thread.
lol

Wee

Why did you role claim gaunt of filthy, knowing full well that puts you on the crosshairs of town and/or scum?

You maybe a lynch bomb, which means I'm staying the hell away from you. Also what the heck does taking a shower in the game? You may still be a lynch bomb after all that?
Jesus Christ
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
At least the rest of that post was better, come on Brazil, don't lead with shit when you have a good argument.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,439
São Paulo, Brazil
I stopped reading halfway through cause I had to quote it for the hot take. That unvote quote you pulled. That some real...uh....let's go with editorializing for you to leap to that logic line. If the point was to make a tie and the tie was instantly broken, then his unvote still makes sense, there would be no point anymore.

I do agree that VA cares more about Edge than he wants to admit or realizes (I voted Edge today and he seemed to be the only one who cared to follow up on the vote) but let's cut trying to add context that isn't there.
Did you really have to get this one in before finishing reading the post? Damn. The urgency!
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,780
I don't buy this.

First of all, creating a 3-way tie "for fun" isn't in town's best interest. There are situations in which doing something like that could be useful to draw reactions - but just doing it and then not having a better explanation for it after the fact is a no-no.

But, alright. You're saying you voted like that "for fun" - but your own wording betrays that explanation. When you unvoted, you said you weren't feeling that vote "anymore with how things [were] shaping up." So... that means you were feeling that vote before that.
My unvote betrayed my explanation? Disagree! You even quoted my post! How are you messing it up? Jiminy. I said, "No put (typo---point) in this vote anymore with how things are shaping up." No point. Not that I wasn't feeling it anymore. My point was to cause a tie. The tie was long gone. No point anymore. Hence, unvote.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Did you really have to get this one in before finishing reading the post? Damn. The urgency![/QUOTE

I'm sure some people would be astounded with how often how do this. Also, quarterly reminder that if I actually read your reads list then you should feel lucky. Usually I just read my own section and then my eyes glaze over. Reads lists are the worst and I hate that they feel required sometimes.

All that said, you at least have me intrigued when VA keeps fumbling posts like this one:

Honestly, I didn't get that far into thinking who might have been the scum pushing simply because I didn't know if that was the case. Only that it was a possibility. But I put a little bookmark on the push knowing it was a possibility. So let's say we get a few more days in and any of the previous Turmoil voters are looking fishy (You, me, Wee, Sparky, etc. etc)? Again, it's just another piece. Nothing concrete. But something in the back of my mind.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,227
This is an interesting point. A partial claim like the one you did is way easier for scum to paint as anti-town/selfish than an actual role claim.
Sorta wifom wonder where you are goin wit...........
No better way to do busywork than to accuse others of doing busywork by making assumptions (only for you to turn around and make your own assumptions.)
O nvm I see what your doing. Won't fall for that.

*truffleshuffle*
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,428
Was going to say something about VA tending to overexplain things but then realized I'd be soft defending him like I did for Chugg and Turmoil so why do I keep getting myself into these situations.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,227
I'll save the thread some time.

Brazil: rawr
Rage: truffle
Brazil: RawR
Rage: shuffle
Brazil: rawwwwwwr
Rage: shuffletruffle?

Multiply the above by .......20 spanning a few hours. Now you have the back and forth brazil is baiting me into.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,320
The shade being slung by both Sorian and Brazil is fascinating to watch, wonder who blinks first?

also Zeke is making no sense whatsoever?
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,780
Girlofgotham and VA are...what exactly are you doing????
I don't know! I'm trying to make it stop! But at least someone is talking with me.

My earliest gut read in the game was that Kopite felt like scum, which I then joked must mean he is town because in the previous game I had him 100% wrong. But with so many others having him on their list, it makes me feel more comfortable that I'm not completely crazy.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

Kopite (2 votes)
weemadarthur - #1,140
Kalor - #1,245

TheWorthyEdge (1 votes)
Sorian - #1,267

Vincent Alexander (1 votes)
Brazil - #1,308

Brazil (1 votes)
Faddy - #1,205

Kalor (1 votes)
Sorian - #1,167 #1,168
TheChuggernaut - #1,254

weemadarthur (1 votes)
EzekelRAGE - #1,145

Sorian (1 votes)
Rover - #1,165
Sorian - #1,168 #1,169

Rover (0 votes)
Sorian - #1,166 #1,167

Not voting: Vincent Alexander, Comrade Doggo Sparky, Ty4on, Olinad, Aeleus, AbsolutBro, TheWorthyEdge, Girlofgotham, Lone_Prodigy, saenima, Kopite

Post Counts:
Sorian: 55 EzekelRAGE: 46 Faddy: 23 Olinad: 23 weemadarthur: 23 TheChuggernaut: 19 Rover: 17 Vincent Alexander: 16 Girlofgotham: 12 Comrade Doggo Sparky: 11 saenima: 8 Ty4on: 7 Kalor: 6 Lone_Prodigy: 6 Brazil: 6 Kopite: 6 Aeleus: 4 AbsolutBro: 3

Current Countdown:
qnqze8qkx3



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

absolutbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,628
Why worse about Gotham? She hasn't done much today.
Couple of posts surrounding the Turmoil / Vere situation jumped out while I was rereading. Hoping these links work.

Source
What does that world look like then?

The turmoil push is still the one I want to look closest at. The vere one is worth a glance but I still think some of the early votes as it was gaining traction are a little suspect.
"Some of the early votes as [the Vere vote] was gaining traction"? Vere's votes all happened within 30 posts of each other, then stopped. There was no "gaining traction" nor "early votes". It makes the whole post feel like smoke.

Source
Well turmoil isn't doing himself any favours.

I still don't like the pile-on earlier today but it's the only vote in the running which I'm feeling iffy about myself so I guess:

vote: turmoil7

Lack of substance and that peculiar post directed at me (and I think LP) asking us to pick between the two squabblers.

That last hurrah seemed fairly desperate as well.
"That last hurrah seemed fairly desperate as well". This is Turmoil's last post:
Scum reads .. Kalor, GOG and aeleus

Town reads sorian(lol), the lovers

Null weemad, Fanti, Brazil

VOTE:Kalor

Even if you look through the last 5 or so before that, nothing really feels desperate to me just ... resigned? It feels like Gotham feels the need to justify her vote and uses some real stretches to do so. It's not a lot, I realize, which is why I said it gives me worse feelings not that it's a scum read.
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
Couple of posts surrounding the Turmoil / Vere situation jumped out while I was rereading. Hoping these links work.

Source

"Some of the early votes as [the Vere vote] was gaining traction"? Vere's votes all happened within 30 posts of each other, then stopped. There was no "gaining traction" nor "early votes". It makes the whole post feel like smoke.

Source

"That last hurrah seemed fairly desperate as well". This is Turmoil's last post:


Even if you look through the last 5 or so before that, nothing really feels desperate to me just ... resigned? It feels like Gotham feels the need to justify her vote and uses some real stretches to do so. It's not a lot, I realize, which is why I said it gives me worse feelings not that it's a scum read.
"The early votes gaining traction" was a reference to turmoil's early votes.The ones I flagged up yesterday. Sorry for not being clear enough on that.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
It took me way longer than it should have....

So what was the fumble in my post?

I think you are doing a horrible job at over explaining a point you made that you didn't think anyone would follow up on. It very easy to say "I think there was scum in that mislynch!" But you are tripping over yourself having made that comment without actually following through on the logic ahead of time. And now you either aren't actually seeing scum or you are trying not to out someone
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,439
São Paulo, Brazil
My unvote betrayed my explanation? Disagree! You even quoted my post! How are you messing it up? Jiminy. I said, "No put (typo---point) in this vote anymore with how things are shaping up." No point. Not that I wasn't feeling it anymore. My point was to cause a tie. The tie was long gone. No point anymore. Hence, unvote.
Alright. But even if I concede that point, are you really not going to address the rest of my argument, which is where the real accusation is? :/

Brazil remind me of your thoughts on Turmoil from day 1.
Most of the early votes on turmoil were made while I was away from the game. When I came back, wee was the one leading the charge there, and by that point she was one of my biggest suspicions, which made me not want to vote against turmoil. At the end, I reiterated that, but added that turmoil wasn't even trying to defend himself, so it was hard to argue against the lynch. I must've made like 20 posts throughout that phase. I'm sure you can ISO that stuff in a few minutes.

I'll save the thread some time.

Brazil: rawr
Rage: truffle
Brazil: RawR
Rage: shuffle
Brazil: rawwwwwwr
Rage: shuffletruffle?

Multiply the above by .......20 spanning a few hours. Now you have the back and forth brazil is baiting me into.
I'm on a short schedule, so I'm not feeling up for that this time either. As long as you consider yourself shaded, I'm satisfied :P