Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

[VX1]

From the link:





12.9 TF is pretty powerful.

Click to shrink...

8 core Zen 2, clocked at 3.2Ghz.

"Custom Navi GPU, 56CU, 1.8Ghz, 12.9TF. RT is hardware based, co engineered by AMD and Sony. (They believe the RT hardware is the basis for the rumour that Navi was built for Sony)

24GB RAM (Type or bandwidth wasn't mentioned)

Custom embeded Solid State solution paired with HDD.

No mention of PSVR 2. At all.

PS4 native backwards compatibility, Boost mode being worked on. No mention of enhanced titles. PS3 BC will stay as part of PS Now for the foreseeable future."

Ehhh...those reddit "leaks".

 

[Dant21]

Everything seems extremely plausible...problem is that it's very late days so someone could easily get all the very plausible info and collate it. Someone said the image is photoshopped though, which obviously means a fake

Click to shrink...

Yeah, its all perfectly reasonable info... That we've already mostly figured out. Its so conservative that it could readily be faked and not disproven.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

That pic. Nah

Click to shrink...

How can you tell it's photoshopped? I'm not arguing, i honestly can never tell

 

[Deleted member 40133]

The Zen clock and the Navi CU seem too high, and i was under the impression that SSD HDD solution was not ideal

 

[Deleted member 40133]

From the link:





Well, 12.9 TF *is* pretty darn powerful.

Click to shrink...

"Not as powerful as people expect" okay, who put out this fake? It was someone from this thread, must have been lol

 

[androvsky]

The part where everyone forgets anything Playstation existed before PS3 checks out.

 

[StraightToHell]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bhabap/well_here_we_go/

Only things of note. 3.2 gig zen 2, optane like solution. ssd and hdd solution. Massive grains of salt.

But i did a reverse image search, and the image is original apparently

Click to shrink...

Annoying, the CPU and GPU numbers are ones we've seen a few times, so they could be copies, but I must admit, it's a spec I would be really, really happy with.

I don't think a straight up TFLOPs comparison will be a good benchmark for power this upcoming gen - there's going to be a lot of work to create balanced hardware with great real-time results over theoretical maximums. It's likely to be the first round of multi-platform software that gives us an indication of where the everyday power is at.

 

[modiz]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bhabap/well_here_we_go/

Only things of note. 3.2 gig zen 2, optane like solution. ssd and hdd solution. Massive grains of salt.

But i did a reverse image search, and the image is original apparently

Click to shrink...

"it may not be as powerful as some think"
proceeds to bring out top end specs.

 

[Dant21]

"Not as powerful as people expect" okay, who put out this fake? It was someone from this thread, must have been lol

Click to shrink...

Its almost as if they knew that there were people expecting a 14TF GPU... 🤔

 

[Hey Please]

Would be real freaking disappointed if PS3 BC was still only PSNow based.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Like i said, if anything it's a well done fake. Some stuff seems too high, but not crazily so. Some of the info matches exactly but is vage (24 gig ram), some of the stuff is dissapointing yet expected like no ps3 backcompat and the room (most likely shopped) is a non descript conference room with Sony markings. A meeting wouldn't have Playstation stuff up outside of a specific trades show

 

[gofreak]

Would be real freaking disappointed if PS3 BC was still only PSNow based.

Click to shrink...

It would be entirely predictable IMO.

That reddit post sounds pretty great, but not necessarily too great to be unbelievable. The only thing that gives me pause is the idea of AMD/Sony custom RT hardware. That sounds a little maybe too good to be true, but then I'm still a bit skeptical of any specific RT hw in the consoles.

Still though, anyone could craft something like this. We need vetted leaks from the usual outlets!

 

[Pheonix]

How can you tell it's photoshopped? I'm not arguing, i honestly can never tell

Click to shrink...

I can't tell if it's photoshopped either. Especially because what's on the screens are off angle shots from a camera pointed at the podium.

What makes me doubt it though is that I don't see something like that being here sony will discuss specs.

The Zen clock and the Navi CU seem too high, and i was under the impression that SSD HDD solution was not ideal

Click to shrink...

It's not..... but it's still better than a straight up HDD though. The Zen clocks seem ok to me, the Navi though I agree is too high. 16something would have been more believable..... well unless navi GPUs come around later this year and we see them running at 2000Mhz+.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

I can't tell if it's photoshopped either. Especially because what's on the screens are off angle shots from a camera pointed at the podium.

What makes me doubt it though is that I don't see something like that being here sony will discuss specs.

Click to shrink...

The "here" part is whats interesting. It's not exactly a closet, but not massive either. Would their be any way to find out if their actually was some kind of Sony meeting? I guess the whole point would be that it's secret

Edit: Is that CU number even doable?

 

[sleepr]

It would be entirely predictable IMO.

That reddit post sounds pretty great, but not necessarily too great to be unbelievable. The only thing that gives me pause is the idea of AMD/Sony custom RT hardware. That sounds a little maybe too good to be true, but then I'm still a bit skeptical of any specific RT hw in the consoles.

Still though, anyone could craft something like this. We need vetted leaks from the usual outlets!

Click to shrink...

Yeah agree on the RT part but last week we also had a ND artist hinting at hardware RT, so who knows.

Also from that rumor I don't like the "premium" talk, sounds like 599€ again.

 

[Hey Please]

It would be entirely predictable IMO.

That reddit post sounds pretty great, but not necessarily too great to be unbelievable. The only thing that gives me pause is the idea of AMD/Sony custom RT hardware. That sounds a little maybe too good to be true, but then I'm still a bit skeptical of any specific RT hw in the consoles.

Still though, anyone could craft something like this. We need vetted leaks from the usual outlets!

Click to shrink...

I concur. I simply latched on to the BC part because I really want to go back and play some PS3 exclusives, I own, down the line all potentially prettied up (Motorstorm PR, MGS 4... etc).

Personally my expectations for PS5 is far south of most folks here (expecting similar specs to Stadia).

 

[DonaldKimball]

12tf is double what X has. Coupled with the new cpu that is more than enough for a gen transition.

Pretty sure both ms and sony will end up in the 10-12tf range.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Yeah agree on the RT part but last week we also had a ND artist hinting at hardware RT, so who knows.

Click to shrink...

I forgot about that. And then suddenly he said basically "just speculating!" even though ICE team literally shares the same building as ND

 

[Deleted member 40133]

I can't tell if it's photoshopped either. Especially because what's on the screens are off angle shots from a camera pointed at the podium.

What makes me doubt it though is that I don't see something like that being here sony will discuss specs.

It's not..... but it's still better than a straight up HDD though. The Zen clocks seem ok to me, the Navi though I agree is too high. 16something would have been more believable..... well unless navi GPUs come around later this year and we see them running at 2000Mhz+.

Click to shrink...

Could infinity fabric alleviate any sort of issues between an HDD and an SSD?

 

[eathdemon]

Okay so, I'm a little confused about the Lockhart.

Microsoft would want this to be like $200 less expensive than Anaconda as like a "budget" system releasing at $399... kind of sounds like a parody.

But I'm kind of confused where the $200 in savings could come from.

So they will probably tank the GPU from 11-12 teraflops in the base system to around 4 teraflops in the cheaper system.

Then they could reduce the RAM a little bit because of no 4K.

If it's using an SSD, they could potentially cut down on the size of the SSD of the cheaper one (though that would be really inconvenient for consumers I think...).

But I still don't think this gets to $200 in savings very easily?

Click to shrink...

cheaper cooling, slower ssd, cheaper power supply. also the fact that the gpu chip will be the same chips as the more powerful box that dont cut it means they arent oparating a second node.

 

[gofreak]

I forgot about that. And then suddenly he said basically "just speculating!" even though ICE team literally shares the same building as ND

Click to shrink...

These are big teams. For parts of the teams that have exposure to this stuff, there may even be specific personal NDAs. They wouldn't necessarily be talking at the water cooler about this stuff... I tend to believe him when he says he has no idea.

 

[Dant21]

Could infinity fabric alleviate any sort of issues between an HDD and an SSD?

Click to shrink...

That's not really what infinity fabric is for. IF is good for when you need high bandwidth, low latency, and cache coherency, and shared memory access. It'd be wasted on an SSD and a joke for a SATA controller.

 

[CelestialAtom]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bhabap/well_here_we_go/

Only things of note. 3.2 gig zen 2, optane like solution. ssd and hdd solution. Massive grains of salt.

But i did a reverse image search, and the image is original apparently

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that HDD/SSD combo sounds like exactly how I thought they would go about it (If it is to be believed). I honestly think they will have a decent size SSD just to load the games fast and the HDD to store them. If true, I'm wondering what they would mean in regards to people upgrading their upgrading space.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Hypothetically. How long would it take transfer a game from HDD to SSD? I know there's so much variables. But did Cerny say a custom SSD solution?...using nvme and PCIe 4.0 isn't exactly custom

 

[Expy]

The img is photoshop.

Click to shrink...

What makes you say that? Looks fine to me.

 

[Dant21]

Hypothetically. How long would it take transfer a game from HDD to SSD? I know there's so much variables. But did Cerny say a custom SSD solution?...using nvme and PCIe 4.0 isn't exactly custom

Click to shrink...

I think what you mentioned earlier about an "Optane" like solution is more likely that copying entire games to the SSD. I can't see them doing anything else but caching on the SSD. Otherwise you'd need to have users make decisions about where to install their games, have to load games into the SSD upon run (which is infeasible), or make developers manage themselves. Maybe they'll even extend HBCC all the way through to the hard drive.

I do think that the mention of a custom SSD "faster than anything on PC" should indicate something a bit more exotic that just an NVM-E SSD. I'm genuinely thinking there's a possibility of Micron 3D XPoint instead of NAND and maybe having the controller embedded into the APU so you get speeds similar to the Optane NVDIMMs that Intel has now. I can't think of any way to get faster with an "SSD".

 

[Deleted member 40133]

I think what you mentioned earlier about an "Optane" like solution is more likely that copying entire games to the SSD. I can't see them doing anything else but caching on the SSD. Otherwise you'd need to have users make decisions about where to install their games, have to load games into the SSD upon run (which is infeasible), or make developers manage themselves. Maybe they'll even extend HBCC all the way through to the hard drive.

I do think that the mention of a custom SSD "faster than anything on PC" should indicate something a bit more exotic that just an NVM-E SSD. I'm genuinely thinking there's a possibility of Micron 3D XPoint instead of NAND and maybe having the controller embedded into the APU so you get speeds similar to the Optane NVDIMMs that Intel has now. I can't think of any way to get faster with an "SSD".

Click to shrink...

So he did mention custom? Yeah their is nothing custom about a mass market nvme PCIe SSD. Interesting

 

[VX1]

Some more stuff added today:

https://github.com/llvm-mirror/llvm/commit/834873d34dc8f254d0927a276ca9017dd851afda

cc: anexanhume

 

[M3rcy]

Those GPU specs literally don't add up. 56*64*2*1800= 12.4 TF.

Edit:NM miscalculated somehow.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

Some more stuff added today:

https://github.com/llvm-mirror/llvm/commit/834873d34dc8f254d0927a276ca9017dd851afda

cc: anexanhume

Click to shrink...

That's a massive commit.

 

[VX1]

That's a massive commit.

Click to shrink...

Is that so? What do you make of it?

 

[modiz]

Those GPU specs literally don't add up. 56*64*2*1800= 12.4 TF.

Click to shrink...

It does add up to 12.9TF you miscalculated with your calculator. Still fake though

 

[AegonSnake]

lol that reddit leak is such bullshit. i can make a leak better than that.

I was reading Richard's article on the Gonzolo rumors, and something just hit me. It's NOT the PS5 APU getting an upgrade. it's the Lockheart and the Anaconda APUs. Lockheart is the 8 tflops GPU at $399. Runs games at 1080p. Anaconda will require fancy cooling and will be the $499 premium console.

The main thing that convinced me was Richard mentioning how the APUs need to run windows on it to be able to access the 3D Marks benchmark. He was skeptical about why Sony or AMD would bother with adding support for windows, but I would imagine it would be much simpler for MS with all the windows engineers.

 

[Pheonix]

Yeah, that HDD/SSD combo sounds like exactly how I thought they would go about it (If it is to be believed). I honestly think they will have a decent size SSD just to load the games fast and the HDD to store them. If true, I'm wondering what they would mean in regards to people upgrading their upgrading space.

Click to shrink...

Only real way the SSD+HDD combo really works (o at least as described) is that the SSD is locked out from the end user. So we can never upgrade the SSD. And it will probably be embedded on the PCB. The HDD however we can probably upgrade all we want and even put an SSD there too.

Technically, nothing stops them from having an NVMe SSD that's embedded on the PCB. Barring reparability issues, it will probably be cheaper for them to do that anyways.

 

[androvsky]

It's an odd mix of info, who is Sony telling all these specs to that aren't developers (otherwise it'd be a devkit and a spec sheet) and are interested in PS3 BC? And no one says or asks anything about VR? I can see large third party publishers not caring about VR, wondering about PS3 BC, and wanting some vague specs that they don't actually need, but why hold a meeting now to effectively hand all that info over to Microsoft?

Hypothetically. How long would it take transfer a game from HDD to SSD? I know there's so much variables. But did Cerny say a custom SSD solution?...using nvme and PCIe 4.0 isn't exactly custom

Click to shrink...

Assuming a fast 2.5" HDD transferring a 100GB game, it'd take about 16 minutes at best, assuming a solid 100 MB/s transfer rate from the HDD. If that's true, their quest to eliminate load screens will have created the worst ones ever when you want to change games. Have mercy on anyone playing both Call of Duty and Battlefield in 2021.

As I recall, Cerny just said it would be faster than anything on PC now, which would include stuff that's standard on PCs a year or two from now.

At the moment, Sony won't cop to exact details about the SSD—who makes it, whether it utilizes the new PCIe 4.0 standard—but Cerny claims that it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs.

Click to shrink...

lol that reddit leak is such bullshit. i can make a leak better than that.

I was reading Richard's article on the Gonzolo rumors, and something just hit me. It's NOT the PS5 APU getting an upgrade. it's the Lockheart and the Anaconda APUs. Lockheart is the 8 tflops GPU at $399. Runs games at 1080p. Anaconda will require fancy cooling and will be the $499 premium console.

The main thing that convinced me was Richard mentioning how the APUs need to run windows on it to be able to access the 3D Marks benchmark. He was skeptical about why Sony or AMD would bother with adding support for windows, but I would imagine it would be much simpler for MS with all the windows engineers.

Click to shrink...

I thought they mentioned the PS4 APUs going through the same tests.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

Is that so? What do you make of it?

Click to shrink...

As a java / node developer, iknowsomeofthesewords.gif.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

From the link:

Well, 12.9 TF *is* pretty darn powerful.

Click to shrink...

The numbers look credible. Clocked a little higher than I was expecting but seems to be in the right ballpark.

I was expecting the number of compute units to be near the maximum like this. If the customer (Sony) was driving the requirements you'd expect them to extract the maximum out of what was planned to be available - costs permitting.

If it's a fake, it looks like the most considered yet.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

I was reading Richard's article on the Gonzolo rumors, and something just hit me. It's NOT the PS5 APU getting an upgrade. it's the Lockheart and the Anaconda APUs. Lockheart is the 8 tflops GPU at $399. Runs games at 1080p. Anaconda will require fancy cooling and will be the $499 premium console.

Click to shrink...

Next gen Xboxes are not using APUs. They're using MCMs to maximize manufacturing efficiency across LockHart, Anaconda and Cloud.

 

[M3rcy]

Some more stuff added today:

https://github.com/llvm-mirror/llvm/commit/834873d34dc8f254d0927a276ca9017dd851afda

cc: anexanhume

Click to shrink...

gfx10 IP references would be Navi.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-graphics-ip.243974/

 

[M3rcy]

It does add up to 12.9TF you miscalculated with your calculator. Still fake though

Click to shrink...

Sure did. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

lol that reddit leak is such bullshit. i can make a leak better than that.

I was reading Richard's article on the Gonzolo rumors, and something just hit me. It's NOT the PS5 APU getting an upgrade. it's the Lockheart and the Anaconda APUs. Lockheart is the 8 tflops GPU at $399. Runs games at 1080p. Anaconda will require fancy cooling and will be the $499 premium console.

The main thing that convinced me was Richard mentioning how the APUs need to run windows on it to be able to access the 3D Marks benchmark. He was skeptical about why Sony or AMD would bother with adding support for windows, but I would imagine it would be much simpler for MS with all the windows engineers.

Click to shrink...

The ps4 and pro went through 3d mark too. Not to mention he did a comparison on the serial number methodology or whatever if Gonzalo and pre production ps4 chip

 

[VX1]

gfx10 IP references would be Navi.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-graphics-ip.243974/

Click to shrink...

Yes,we know that already.It was confirmed few days ago: GFX1010=Navi 10

 

[AegonSnake]

I thought they mentioned the PS4 APUs going through the same tests.

Click to shrink...

Ah of course, how did i miss that lol.

Still, there is nothing really identifying that as a PS5 APU.

Next gen Xboxes are not using APUs. There using MCMs to maximize manufacturing efficiency across LockHart, Anaconda and Cloud.

Click to shrink...

Interesting. Not sure what MCMs are though.

 

[Jeffram]

lol that reddit leak is such bullshit. i can make a leak better than that.

I was reading Richard's article on the Gonzolo rumors, and something just hit me. It's NOT the PS5 APU getting an upgrade. it's the Lockheart and the Anaconda APUs. Lockheart is the 8 tflops GPU at $399. Runs games at 1080p. Anaconda will require fancy cooling and will be the $499 premium console.

The main thing that convinced me was Richard mentioning how the APUs need to run windows on it to be able to access the 3D Marks benchmark. He was skeptical about why Sony or AMD would bother with adding support for windows, but I would imagine it would be much simpler for MS with all the windows engineers.

Click to shrink...

But it looks like the PS4 and PS4 pro APUs were tested in the same way. We also don't know if it's a big of a task as He thinks. Potentially, AMD has some intermediary software that allows it to test any chip with Windows. 3dMark is also not limited to Windows, not sure if it was confirmed somehow that it was Windows 3D mark and not some other version.

 

[CelestialAtom]

Only real way the SSD+HDD combo really works (o at least as described) is that the SSD is locked out from the end user. So we can never upgrade the SSD. And it will probably be embedded on the PCB. The HDD however we can probably upgrade all we want and even put an SSD there too.

Technically, nothing stops them from having an NVMe SSD that's embedded on the PCB. Barring reparability issues, it will probably be cheaper for them to do that anyways.

Click to shrink...

That sounds like exactly how it will be done, to be honest. That way, load times can remain consistent for the most part across users since they won't have to worry about different SSD types and how they make affect performance.

 

[Dant21]

Ah of course, how did i miss that lol.

Still, there is nothing really identifying that as a PS5 APU.



Interesting. Not sure what MCMs are though.

Click to shrink...

Multi-chip module. Its just a fancy name for multiple dies on the same package. Also, MCMs that have both a CPU and GPU die are also APUs.

 

[mangochutney]

Assuming a fast 2.5" HDD transferring a 100GB game, it'd take about 16 minutes at best, assuming a solid 100 MB/s transfer rate from the HDD. If that's true, their quest to eliminate load screens will have created the worst ones ever when you want to change games. Have mercy on anyone playing both Call of Duty and Battlefield in 2021.

Click to shrink...

Don't forget about PlayGo. It only needs to move part of the game to get you going.

Also there were patents where even just hovering over a game in the menu would begin to load the game, so before you even press to launch the game it would be transferring the required data. In addition, learning which games you play often and would be likely to play next to again reduce those times.

 

[jroc74]

Yeah, that HDD/SSD combo sounds like exactly how I thought they would go about it (If it is to be believed). I honestly think they will have a decent size SSD just to load the games fast and the HDD to store them. If true, I'm wondering what they would mean in regards to people upgrading their upgrading space.

Click to shrink...

Check out the PS3 Super Slim. It comes with 12GB flash storage. And it has a slot to install your own hard drive.

When you do that, it disables the 12GB. That shouldn't happen with the PS5. But I think it will be like the Super Slim, it was extremely easy to install your own hard drive internally. And do a system transfer.

The system was always backed up to the flash storage, IIRC. Either that or there was a backup always on there. I don't know any other benefits it had, but installing the hard drive internally being alot easier was nice.

I'm hoping it's something similar if they do this.

 

[Deleted member 36493]

It would be ridiculously unintelligent for MS to launch as a direct competitor to PS5. They've done so much work to distance Xbox as a platform, only to go head to head with Sony again? March 2020 is ideal for them. Launch Halo in Fall 2020 to steal some attention from PS5.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

ally be a situation of the Lockhart holding back the design of the higher end SKU? After all I've learned, it seems the upgrade path for price and perform

Click to shrink...

It would be entirely predictable IMO.

That reddit post sounds pretty great, but not necessarily too great to be unbelievable. The only thing that gives me pause is the idea of AMD/Sony custom RT hardware. That sounds a little maybe too good to be true, but then I'm still a bit skeptical of any specific RT hw in the consoles.

Still though, anyone could craft something like this. We need vetted leaks from the usual outlets!

Click to shrink...

I would actually prefer ~12TFLOPs + RT hardware to ~14 TFLOPs with just compute.
But I think it's very hard to tell just how much die space RT hardware would take because we don't have a clue on what exactly is AMD doing and I don't think extrapolating Turing RTX numbers is a good starting place.