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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Consoles aren't phones. The pricing model is different here and comparing a console to a $1000 phone is nonsensical.
Price sensitive gamers don't buy consoles at launch. The hardcore do. There will be virtually zero Lockhart/Scarlett exclusive games on the platform for at least a year. Launch systems sell on potential, not the library.
Assuming the PS3 is $399, At $299 the lockhart would be competing directly against a PS5 which is not only substantially more capable from a technical standpoint, but has the perception that the system has greater potential- Sony is currently the industry leader worldwide with a far more developed first party, a number of third party exclusives, and the PS5 is a position to improve the entire PS4 back catalogue via BC.
$100 difference isn't large enough to be meaningful here, given all of that. Microsoft needs to convince current playstation owners to switch platforms to get anywhere next generation and a $100 price cut for significantly worse hardware doesn't do this.
Lockhart is also going to be competing against the base PS4 and PS4 Pro which will undercut it substantially. The MSRP on the PS4 is STILL $299 and it's been what...6 years now? Expect that to be $199 by the time next generation systems are out, with the library of the PS4 behind it.
if the PS5 is a $399 system, the lockhart has no audience here. There's only "somewhat" of an argument for it if both systems are $499.
Games journalism isn't really known for Objectivity, outside of a very few. Tom is not one of them, but I don't really begrudge him for his bias, it's the name of the game for most.
I expect that as well. I did not mention DLSS in my post, but I did use it and it does help the frame rate at a slight cost of the image. Running at 4k Native w/DLSS I can hit 60fps with slight dips to around 57 (the lowest I seen so far). It does soften the image slightly but is it still very clean/crisp. This is a Nvidia tech, but CB and other techniques like it will help in this regard.
the only companies that could do it are those owned by Sony. ask someone to work on dual gpu and the Series X and PC, well they might as well cut PS5 out of the equation and swap in Switch
The state of crossfire and SLI support is lacking at best.
Interesting..would you have a guess on expected TF's that RT might eat up?
I'm not asking for objectivity, personal opinions are fine. But there is a separation between that and Warren's behavior. Journalism is about the truth and the trust between reporter and reader. I just think credibility is shot when you display that sort of behavior.
My opinion on Lockhart has not changed. At a much lower cost it will outsell Series X probably by 5 to 1 if not more. Third party developers will focus their efforts on Lockhart with only upscaling to 4K ports to Series X. Basically the same thing we have today with base vs premium consoles.
Next gen games will still look better then they do today obviously but I do feel like they are going to be extremely held back by Microsoft's low-tier box because most next gen gamers will buy the cheaper box and developers are not going to want to put more money into game development for a more expensive premium based system when they can just develop their games with Lockhart as the primary focus and port those games with higher resolutions and framerates to Xbox Series X.
Sony will push the PS5 as their key box since as far as we know there is only one PS5 system so even if it is only 9.2tf their first party games will be targeting 9.2tf instead of 4tf that Microsoft will likely be targeting with their first party titles.
I will buy both systems because I actually like what both companies are doing right now (minus Lockhart) but I hope Microsoft reconsiders on Lockhart and does so quickly. Otherwise I can't see how it won't hold back next gen visuals by a large degree. Locally the people I talk to completely agree on this and I imagine it's mostly the same here on ResetEra.
Next gen games will still look better then they do today obviously but I do feel like they are going to be extremely held back by Microsoft's low-tier box because most next gen gamers will buy the cheaper box and developers are not going to want to put more money into game development for a more expensive premium based system when they can just develop their games with Lockhart as the primary focus and port those games with higher resolutions and framerates to Xbox Series X.
Sony will push the PS5 as their key box since as far as we know there is only one PS5 system so even if it is only 9.2tf their first party games will be targeting 9.2tf instead of 4tf that Microsoft will likely be targeting with their first party titles.
I will buy both systems because I actually like what both companies are doing right now (minus Lockhart) but I hope Microsoft reconsiders on Lockhart and does so quickly. Otherwise I can't see how it won't hold back next gen visuals by a large degree. Locally the people I talk to completely agree on this and I imagine it's mostly the same here on ResetEra.
Warren is very reputable. If he thinks it's more powerful then I believe him.
Pot shots and snide comments at the PS5 aren't going to win him much credence from Sony fans, without a doubt.
I wouldn't be surprised. What more of a way to get people in on PS5 by enticing them with the best games of the PS4 generation with PS5 enhancements.
I have no idea. My GPU is a 2080ti EVGA Hydro Cooper. I have it OC to 2.1ghz and without DLSS at 4k native with RT on High I get around 45fps or so. With RT on Ultra it drops to about 38fps or so.
Maybe not classically but he is certainly getting his feet wet lately.
exactly lol
Every single first party PS4 game with a PS5 enhancement, now that is a good incentive to buy a PS5 day one and during the 2020 Christmas sales rather than buying a PS4.
More like he is a human being like the rest of us that is likely both excited about a Microsoft product for 2020 and has been a little irritated with crap thrown his way too. Call that what you want.
Xbox One X was just on sale for $349 with a game bundled this holiday. It was $399 with no game in 2018.
Next year you could reasonably assume the One X would retail for $299. Remove the $60 game packed in, and the console itself would be ~$250. Lockhart with no game at $299 is highly likely.
You also have to consider that Lockhart will have a different form factor to Series X. Probably half the GPU size, less RAM, smaller board, and cheaper cooling. Rumors also say it's digital only.
$250 is pushing it, unless MS wants to never drop the price for Lockhart like how the Switch and PS4 are doing it. But even then, they could price it at $299 and they'd probably make more money than if it were $249.
But that's the thing, it's still an iPhone. A cheaper next-gen Playstation possibly would outsell PS5 regardless of specs, but that's not the same as cheaper next-gen Xbox.
It takes more than a marginally cheaper console to make people switch out of certain console ecosystem they've picked this gen. Sony being the market leader and assuming PS5 turns out to be $399, a $100 cheaper and clearly weaker Lockhart might have some hard time.
Specifically because of the online component. Would have violated that policy.
I thought the X costed $499.
Edit: Unless you're talking about Black Friday pricing. Then disregard my post.
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One cannot be a fan and a reporter. It's simply not possible to ask for accountability while also ostensibly being a PR outlet for a given manufacturer. I'm sure he does get a bunch of idiocy thrown his way on social media. I'd never begrudge someone sharing their personal opinions whatsoever and the information he's shared has been confirmed in the past. I just wonder for you and others, how much of this is confirmation bias after this particular generation of consoles and how much does Warren know about both consoles.
I think he's saying that what we've seen so far from Microsoft has been really impressive. In order for Sony to top it, they'll have to do something even more impressive? Seems like a terrible analogy, but I don't know wtf else he could've been talking about.
#1 reason high end hardware doesnt get pushed is cost. Takes a lot of money to create detailed assets and advanced animations. That's why 70% of the games I played in 2019 could be ported to the 360. When devs have the resources, they push high end hardware. The One X was pushed to its limits with games like Red Dead, ACO and the most recent COD campaign. Will be the same thing next gen. At best a handful of games will push the hardware on a yearly basis. Everything else is held back by budget. Lockhart is about the most straightforward downscale you can have. Only difference in capabilities will be resolution and texture detail.
I agree it will depend on the games and the services it provides. But Lockhart + Game Pass and putting their first-party games onto Game Pass is no doubt a big draw for people. Especially with Xbox no longer saddled by Xbox One perception. But Sony, of course, will also have a more difficult time getting Xbox gamers onto PS, since Xbox gamers are now used to Game Pass and Day 1 FP and cheap prices in general.
IMO, Getting games up to Sony's level is a lot easier than putting your games day 1 and improving your subscription service and putting it on discounts.
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In reality we still know very little about XSX though. We don't have any official confirmation on any of the specs aside from vague power and speed comparisons to current gen, and the architecture. We don't know the first party and exclusive lineup aside from HI and Senua's Saga. More to the point, we have no information on its user interface, OS, service and QoL features etc. All we pretty much know is what it looks like and what it's called.
So I think it's a bit early to be saying that it's floating above water! It's just a plastic box at this point. Although they do float.
He's certainly biased towards MS in general, but calling him a cheerleader is ridiculous. It's not like he's some mindless fanboy who never criticizes them or anything. In the past he's been quite happy to call MS out on things like Windows 8, UWP, the failure of Windows Phone and yes, even the failings of Xbox this gen.
Do you have anything more to back up your opinion, or are you literally calling him a cheerleader because of one pretty innocuous tweet? Because that's quite an overreaction if so.
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Haven't listened yet. Does he list spec numbers he's seen or does he decline to? Thing is, the more I hear from industry insiders, the more confident I get that Oberon is/was not the final version of Sony's graphics chip.
That's the MSRP, but has been on sale for significantly less a lot of the time. Just the past month you could get a bundle for $349, and was on sale for $399 multiple times in 2019. It's a fact that it retails for $499 but in reality its price is much cheaper.
Best guess based on the patent is it will linearly scale with CU/TU performance. Relative performance to other vendors, who knows.
Though I'd expect CPU scaling to be much less of a problem on console.
So, if I'm understanding correctly, PS5 sounds nothing like a $1000 box.
This crazy talk .
Other than Nintendo name one pub that has as many best selling IP as Sony now .
Sony can do what MS doing tomorrow if they feel like it .
They won't since there games and hardware selling by the millions and there is no need.
Would that scale with clocks like other things?
'if they're both 499 and both are pushing ray tracing and 4K and amazing graphics then IMO MS should hold Lockhart for a year. You mix your message talking about 1080p at the same time as 4K, and how many launch/year 1 customers re that price sensitive? 299 is more a mainstream price so you can use itafter the initial 'at whatever price' group is more fully satisfied
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