We really gone back to MS might have better RT and other nonsense .
Does "other nonsense" cover PS5 having a superior GPU and SSD? Because that's also happening. It all sounds like speculation to me, in a speculation thread no less.
We really gone back to MS might have better RT and other nonsense .
seems like it, but the boost mode actually seems to split to a few options that seem very interesting.You have, with assumption :
This is my take. Boost mode PS5 will allow better frame rate and / or better average resolution on dynamic resolutions games (which is most of recent third party games).
- Unpatched PS4 games : can run natively / boost mode Pro / boost mode PS5 (not sure, most are already at their best on boost)
- Patched / already Pro enabled games : can run natively (maybe?) / Pro Mode with or without downsampling / boost mode PS5.
so they are not expecting price to change, if PS5 were to use these, they would have probably expected the price to go down as you would have orders of millions upon millions of these.Important part:
"With their HBM2E memory set to go into mass production in 2020, SK Hynix expects the new memory to be used on "supercomputers, machine learning, and artificial intelligence systems that require the maximum level of memory performance." All of these are distinctly high-end applications where HBM2 is already being heavily used today, so HBM2E is a natural extension to that market. At the same time, it's also a reflection of the price/margins that HBM2 carries. HBM2 has remained (stubbornly) high-priced well after its release – a situation that memory manufacturers seem to be perfectly content with – and we're not expecting HBM2E to change that. So expect to see SK Hynix's HBM2E memory remain the domain of servers and other high-end equipment."
seems like it, but the boost mode actually seems to split to a few options that seem very interesting.
you could have normal compatibility modes, as in, for ps4 compatibility, disable half the CUs and downclock to 800mhz, for ps4 pro compatibility, activate all CU and downclock to 911mhz.
but if you use boost mode, for ps4 games without a pro patch, you would need to still disable half the CU but clock on 2000MHz, and for games with a pro patch, run at full speed. that would mean much stronger boost mode this time around, even utilizing the PS5 to its max on PS4 Pro patched games.
i hope some devs will just patch their dynamic res games to remove the upper limit of the resolution scaler.
so they are not expecting price to change, if PS5 were to use these, they would have probably expected the price to go down as you would have orders of millions upon millions of these.
This.
In fact the whole GPU pipeline benefits from higher clocks, so from the FE, geometry, rasterisation, shading and render backends as you mentioned.
I would guess, Sony weighed the option of a much larger die and decided instead they'd get more benefit from a smaller faster GPU than a wider slower one.
I honestly, can't imagine why MS wouldn't come to the same conclusion given the data available to them will be the same.
This.
I'm afraid we are not getting HBM2 in $399 or even $499 console.
I don't know, but the rumours sounded better when we were talking about a 500€ machine with RT.
I mean, I know it's better for the general public, but for first time I rather want a better product instead a budget-adjusted one.
What's the allure with having HBM2? Saving space? More power efficient?
Which do you think will have the power crownI can imagine Scarlett having slightly better RT simply due to having, say, 20 WGPs vs. the PS5 packing only 18 WGPs. 5700XT has 16 more TMUs than the 5700, and if the RT cores are linked to them, that could give it a slight advantage.
That said, BVH traversal is one of those things that likes running faster better rather than wider, IIRC.
It's not necessarily faster, but yeah, the low power consumption is important. Could even explain 2GHz. ;)
Yes, and that's always been a raytracer, capable of reflections and all.
People are under the impression that hbm would give a significant increase to apu performance due to lower heat output.What's the allure with having HBM2? Saving space? More power efficient?
There might be multiple Power Crowns.
PS5 could be WBO and WBC champion
Scarlett could be IBF champion
Does "other nonsense" cover PS5 having a superior GPU and SSD? Because that's also happening. It all sounds like speculation to me, in a speculation thread no less.
HBM is ⭐
They already came to that conclusion several years ago when designing the Xbox One X.This.
In fact the whole GPU pipeline benefits from higher clocks, so from the FE, geometry, rasterisation, shading and render backends as you mentioned.
I would guess, Sony weighed the option of a much larger die and decided instead they'd get more benefit from a smaller faster GPU than a wider slower one.
I honestly, can't imagine why MS wouldn't come to the same conclusion given the data available to them will be the same.
there's a clear emphasis on pushing GPU frequencies significantly higher than anything we've seen in any console powered by core AMD technology. "This has two wonderful virtues from my perspective - as you know, the clock drives all the various different parts of the pipeline so it raises all boats," explains Andrew Goossen. "I don't get imbalances in my pipeline or introduce new bottlenecks or anything like that. The second one is that for the pixel pushing power we didn't need as much area, we didn't need as many CUs to hit that. It saves area - a pretty important consideration."
if we are retaining the resolution level of the PS4 pro (4k checkerboard), then we should have around 3x the graphical complexity of the current generation.I just wanna know what kind of graphic fidelity I should be expecting in next-gen consoles.......to temper my expectations. :)
People are under the impression that hbm would give a significant increase to apu performance due to lower heat output.
Not sure how that would work as more heat would be concentrated near the die compared to gddr chips. We're looking at insignificant power consumption reduction with increased cost and likely some compromises as ddr4 would be paired with the hbm.
Welcome to your $599 console, Mr. #IWantA$399ConsoleWell...that would make a lot of sense,i guess :)
Colbert ,i know you are skeptical but what do you make of 2GHz Navi 10 + HBM2 ? (regarding heat and power consumption)
Doesn't matter for me after David Cage said that rt on ps5 is good enough for 1080p.
The question is : is that hardcoded ?but if you use boost mode, for ps4 games without a pro patch, you would need to still disable half the CU but clock on 2000MHz, and for games with a pro patch, run at full speed. that would mean much stronger boost mode this time around, even utilizing the PS5 to its max on PS4 Pro patched games.
i hope some devs will just patch their dynamic res games to remove the upper limit of the resolution scaler.
Wide and slow is best when considering TDP. If you can figure out a way t cool the system though then smaller and faster is better.It's funny because I was under the impression that wide and slow was the best option for consoles, because you got the best performance per watt. I know a bigger die is more expensive, but still.
Since when Quantic Dream target 60fps on playstation ?;) Heavy rain 30fps both os ps3 and ps4, Beyond Two Sould 30 fps on ps3 and ps4, Detroit Become Human 30fps on ps4 and ps4 proAgain taking what said a game director, not a game technical director told in an interview without any context maybe PS5 is able to run Control at 1080p 30 fps or 60 fps like the 2080 Ti.
Wide and slow is best when considering TDP. If you can figure out a way t cool the system though then smaller and faster is better.
Since when Quantic Dream target 60fps on playstation ?;) Heavy rain 30fps both os ps3 and ps4, Beyond Two Sould 30 fps on ps3 and ps4, Detroit Become Human 30fps on ps4 and ps4 pro
Sure, not much details butAnd even if they target 30 fps it not mean the raytracing will not be better than in Control. You don't have any context for what he said not any game or demo...
tells me that we shouldn't expect heavy rt on nextgen consoles.Our current analysis is that few studios will go for 8K because it will necessitate too many compromises on the overall quality of the game. Ray Tracing is going to be so costly that we will probably only see Full HD titles using it (there is a direct connection between resolution, Ray Tracing and performances), at least in the first generation of titles
So expect serious improvement but forget about buzz words as 8k, ray tracing, 120fps."All in all, we believe that there will be serious improvements in next-gen games, but maybe not the ones that are currently promoted the most."
With costs of production increasing exponentially as we go to smaller nodes, i wouldnt be surprised if sony went with a smaller chip to save some money. though i dont know how much money they would be saving with a 320mm2 gpu compared to a 380mm2 gpu.Wide and slow is best when considering TDP. If you can figure out a way t cool the system though then smaller and faster is better.
I just wanna know what kind of graphic fidelity I should be expecting in next-gen consoles.......to temper my expectations. :)
i thought the sony leaks showed that HBM2 would either stack on top of the APU or right around it. and a massive cooler would sit on top of it cooling everything from the APU to the HMB2 stacks.People are under the impression that hbm would give a significant increase to apu performance due to lower heat output.
Problem is more of that heat would be concentrated near the die compared to gddr chips. We're looking at insignificant power consumption reduction with increased cost and likely some compromises as ddr4 would be paired with the hbm.
Sure, not much details but tells me that we shouldn't expect heavy rt on nextgen consoles.
Our current analysis is that few studios will go for 8K because it will necessitate too many compromises on the overall quality of the game.
My analysis no studio will go 8k because this is too costly. This is 16x more than PS4...
I just didn't want to cut quotation, second sentence was important and:My analysis no studio will go 8k because this is too costly. This is 16x more than PS4...
"All in all, we believe that there will be serious improvements in next-gen games, but maybe not the ones that are currently promoted the most."
Sure, not much details but tells me that we shouldn't expect heavy rt on nextgen consoles.
And more
So expect serious improvement but forget about buzz words as 8k, ray tracing, 120fps.
I just didn't want to cut quotation, second sentence was important and:
if we are retaining the resolution level of the PS4 pro (4k checkerboard), then we should have around 3x the graphical complexity of the current generation.
Expect game enviornments to look photorealistic thanks to megatextures used in the Rebirth video, at least in first party games, and character models to look very CGi. not everything can be photorealistic just yet, so expect stylized graphics like in the heretic demo, but i suspect some open world games set in barren lands will come very close to the rebirth video.
I shouldn't respond couse you didn't deserve but it's you lucky day. Nope, I expect big improvement in graphics quality but not heavy rt (I pressume nextgen consoles will be less capable in this field than rtx2070).You are being obtuse. He's talking about ray-traced next-gen games. Higher graphics mean more resources needed for ray-tracing. Are you expecting graphics to stay the same between this and next gen?
Thanks. That's about what I expected. Give me this for $399 and I'm game.
you really shouldnt be expecting more than 10TF, so i agree with this expectation. maybe MS decided to go wider but slower so it ends up getting higher like maybe 48CU @ 1500mhz which is the same as the persumed PS5 in TF number (if sony are doing 2000mhz with 36CU it makes sense that MS will be able to do something along that), maybe a little better with 1600mhz for 9.8TF. but honestly i dont expect them to be too far apart, and highly doubt any leak at this point that suggests >10TF for any side.As an Xbox primary guy but my expectations are tempered based on their constant messaging around frame rates and loading times. Obviously you need much more GPU to push 4K60 than 4K30 but none of the messaging currently boasts about elevating visual fidelity. I'm expecting 10 TF Navi and not falling for the 12-14 trap some are boasting about.
Can you give me quotation of this ? I've just read interview second time and only sentence that can give hope for rt with bigger resoultion than 1080p is this:Read the full interview. He said raytracing will be more important than resolution. I disagree... He thinks we will see title going from 4k to 1080p or 1440p but with raytracing...
Ray tracing is going to be so costly that we will probably only see full HD titles using it (there is a direct connection between resolution, ray tracing and performance), at least in the first generation of titles. Next-gen consoles show a significant improvement in CPU power, which will mean significant improvements in physics and AI. GPU improvement should be enough to get ray tracing in full HD or full 4K resolution (without ray tracing).
Then wait 2 years after launch. you are not getting 1-2 TB SSD, 10+ tflops GPU, Zen 2 CPU, 4k bluray drive, and ray tracing for $399.Thanks. That's about what I expected. Give me this for $399 and I'm game.
Ok, then I'll pay $499. Not waiting 2 years. :)Then wait 2 years after launch. you are not getting 1-2 TB SSD, 10+ tflops GPU, Zen 2 CPU, 4k bluray drive, and ray tracing for $399.
Can you give me quotation of this ? I've just read interview second time and only sentence that can give hope for rt with bigger resoultion than 1080p is this:
Lighting, not resolution, will be the next big technical advancement, according to Cage.
I think that lighting is going to be a key thing. There is this new technology called "ray tracing" that we talk a lot about these days. I think this is going to be interesting because it will allow to improve reflections, lighting, shadows. And I think that's a big deal. For years, I mean, the amount of polygons you could display was key, then it became the shaders and then textures, and now I think it's all about the lighting, and the more subtle and nuanced the lighting will be, the better the image will be. I don't think it's going to be a war about resolution; I know that people talk about 8K these days and blah blah blah. I don't think this is the real next battle. I would rather put focus on lighting. Lighting, lighting, lighting.
i am sure it will be worth it, just the SSD and the CPU upgrades alone will be game changing.