Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
thats what sticks out to me, they said there was going to be several dead people on D2. With that not happened they should have a plan B.
Weird... but i am not going to look further into it.

Since my vote is not active atm i also might aswell

Vote: Unvote
Im guessing he probably saw the D3 restriction on his Vig kills as a balancing precaution to prevent to many kills in the first coiple days, which implies the presence of multiple killing roles that already will be killing early, so it was a fair prediction i spose.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,018
United Kingdom
Well we know there's a bomber out there somewhere.

If they are neutral it's not a huge deal since bombs dont work on me.

If the scum have bombs I am fucked since they will just faction kill me.


Also third possibility a second scum team with Bomb kill instead of faction kill?

Scum are going to try and kill you anyway even if the bomber is neutral as it's far more likely they get sent to town players.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I thought you already knew because of this post
pexels-photo-931317.jpeg


That's not even what that post says. He's talking about FEIGN. Not you. Not your role. Dude, you have to stop claiming out of the gate, please. You're gonna get killed and we won't have a defuse.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
People I would vote today:
Zipped
Nin
Sky

I have not played with a town LP, but a sign of a scum LP is low effort reads, reposting reads and votings with "i agree with the votes on x person"
what does a town LP look like?
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Honestly im feeling pretty good about this day 1, i already have like half the playerbase figured out, ez game ez life
 

Ynnek7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
887
Oof, yeah, I had a bad feeling as I saw Feigns post while catching up this morning. Mistakes happen, though, and hopefully we'll see you next game!
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,609
UK
So we know feign was town. The people pushing him as neutral could be scum, it was an easy push to make as scum as the way feign described everything didn't sound very townie and the threat of taking a scum player with him if he died would obviously mean its in scum best interest to vote him out
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
I'd personally be much more tempted to vote one of the low posters today rather than anyone else.
Can i get some names
we got less than 7 hours jman, i really dont want us to push for a late hour lynch, just so we dont end day 1 without one
Well realistically its only nin since im leaving my vote there and i wont be back before day end, but:
Nin
Monkey
Ty4on
Ynnek
Sparks
Ambulance

Probably some others, you picked a hell of a time to ask.
why monkey and amb?
is ynnek on there because of their low post count?
 
OP
OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,279
==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start

Ty4on (3 votes)
A Wild Ambulance Appears - #749
TheChuggernaut - #852 #1,045
Neki - #1,013
TheChuggernaut - #1,165

jman1954goat (2 votes)
Ephidel - #1,058
Kalor - #1,089

nin (2 votes)
Stantastic - #613
Leo - #1,111

TheChuggernaut (1 votes)
A Wild Ambulance Appears - #158 #749
AllThingsPurple - #929

EzekelRAGE (1 votes)
Fanto - #1,046

Funky Dude Sparks (1 votes)
AllThingsPurple - #138 #929
Aeleus - #465

Maolfunction (1 votes)
EzekelRAGE - #721

Ynnek7 (1 votes)
Zem - #960

Lone_Prodigy (1 votes)
FateShirou - #568
Fanto - #737 #1,046

Zippedpinhead (1 votes)
Dr. Monkey - #399

Kalor (1 votes)
Maolfunction - #640

Stantastic (0 votes)
jman1954goat - #731 #733

Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
Fanto - #140 #737

Zem (0 votes)
Maolfunction - #239 #640

Feign (0 votes)
jman1954goat - #977 #1,094
TheChuggernaut - #1,045 #1,165
nin - #1,062 #1,196

Not voting: Faddy, Lone_Prodigy, nin, Zippedpinhead, Hawthorn, Ynnek7, SkyOdin, HPsauce, jman1954goat, Kopite, Ty4on, Funky Dude Sparks

Post Counts:
TheChuggernaut: 172 nin: 136 Dr. Monkey: 127 Maolfunction: 106 Feign: 94 AllThingsPurple: 80 Stantastic: 80 FateShirou: 76 Funky Dude Sparks: 65 Fanto: 56 Ty4on: 49 Faddy: 44 Zem: 39 A Wild Ambulance Appears: 38 jman1954goat: 37 Aeleus: 35 Ephidel: 29 Neki: 24 EzekelRAGE: 21 Hawthorn: 16 SkyOdin: 16 Kopite: 15 Leo: 12 LaunchpadMcQ: 12 Lone_Prodigy: 11 Zippedpinhead: 10 HPsauce: 10 Ynnek7: 9 Kalor: 7 Stuart444: 6


Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
yeah, lets just do it now.

Can you respond to this?
Sure. The short answer is: I don't care because it's not worth my time to care unless something catches my eye.

The longer answer I didn't want to type on mobile TO FEIGN is: that requires a long history of our community and my role in it. It happens in every game. I say something and some people nod and say yep and carry it forward and some people nitpick everything, but the thing is, I say a lot - I post a lot, I post big, I explain a lot, and there's always plenty of detail to look at when you look at me. I'm always right out in the middle and involved with everything and I usually take or end up in a leadership role. So I'm used to it. It doesn't matter to me, really; if I think I'm right, I want people to follow me, obviously; if I am less certain I agonize over it and feel awful when people follow me on votes, however it shakes out. The result is exhausting and it's why I don't play as much anymore, because it gets worse round about d3 when suddenly half the game turns and decides I'm scum but doesn't actually vote me out so I just get to reargue the same points about me for half the day until I get tired and aggro and then we do it all again the next day. It's a cycle, it's just how it is, and I am going to keep doing what I'm doing inside of it regardless.

So what was the point of that, nin? The first time you said it I didn't address it because you know this. Everyone knows this. Everyone's tired of me talking about it. I'm tired of me talking about it. My only solution has been just what I said above: I don't play as much.

Does this actually help your read on me? Because it feels like a filler line of questioning, except it wasn't questioning until I pulled it out of you.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,699
The result is exhausting and it's why I don't play as much anymore, because it gets worse round about d3 when suddenly half the game turns and decides I'm scum but doesn't actually vote me out so I just get to reargue the same points about me for half the day until I get tired and aggro and then we do it all again the next day. It's a cycle, it's just how it is, and I am going to keep doing what I'm doing inside of it regardless.
I am pretty sure we all go through this. Every single player here knows how that cycle of mistrust and re arguing points over and over and over again feels.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
You are a beautiful soul
Can i get some names

we got less than 7 hours jman, i really dont want us to push for a late hour lynch, just so we dont end day 1 without one

why monkey and amb?
is ynnek on there because of their low post count?
Monkey im basically still rocking that early impression. Honestly feeling pretty good about it.

Amb is harder to say, that list was more or less strongest to weakest, just feels like enough of a presence to be, well, present, but not healthy enough to be helpful. But then i could well have just glossed over things.
 

nin

Asked Politely
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,159
Sure. The short answer is: I don't care because it's not worth my time to care unless something catches my eye.

The longer answer I didn't want to type on mobile TO FEIGN is: that requires a long history of our community and my role in it. It happens in every game. I say something and some people nod and say yep and carry it forward and some people nitpick everything, but the thing is, I say a lot - I post a lot, I post big, I explain a lot, and there's always plenty of detail to look at when you look at me. I'm always right out in the middle and involved with everything and I usually take or end up in a leadership role. So I'm used to it. It doesn't matter to me, really; if I think I'm right, I want people to follow me, obviously; if I am less certain I agonize over it and feel awful when people follow me on votes, however it shakes out. The result is exhausting and it's why I don't play as much anymore, because it gets worse round about d3 when suddenly half the game turns and decides I'm scum but doesn't actually vote me out so I just get to reargue the same points about me for half the day until I get tired and aggro and then we do it all again the next day. It's a cycle, it's just how it is, and I am going to keep doing what I'm doing inside of it regardless.

So what was the point of that, nin? The first time you said it I didn't address it because you know this. Everyone knows this. Everyone's tired of me talking about it. I'm tired of me talking about it. My only solution has been just what I said above: I don't play as much.

Does this actually help your read on me? Because it feels like a filler line of questioning, except it wasn't questioning until I pulled it out of you.

kinda ? Not really but then again its a start ? us talking in the same room, its a start Monkey and i really appreciate all those words.........so many words
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,699
Dr. Monkey

Just to be clear my last post is saying I sympathize with the struggle, Mafia is very stressful. remember to take it easy if your feeling stressed in the game.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,594
Sigh... I hate to say it, but you have violated the following rule:

5. Unless explicitly told otherwise, players may not directly quote or post screenshots of any PMs, posts, conversations, or any other type of document that was not made in this thread.

Unfortunately you will have to be modkilled.

Feign has died!




Majority is now 14.

I knew this was happening cause the same happened to me :( hope to see you some other game, Feign!
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Vote: nin

Between nin and Ty I think nin's flip will give us much more info. I think nin is a good vote today, i'd like to leave that train option on the table if anyone else agrees.
Don't like this. It's not the targets that I take exception to - though I'm thinking through nin - so much as the framing. At this point, is there a particular reason you choose an info vote? Yes, yes, it's d1. But this is definitely not a standard d1.

so again, the flavour for Jmans claim fits, defusing bombs is a tediously long thing in MGS2 and you use coolant spray to do it.
Im pretty ready to take that as town Jman getting himself killed because hes effectively a protective roll and scum tend to murder those.
I am thinking that flavor is pretty important here, from what we've seen and from my own PM.
 

Ynnek7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
887
Ynnek
since ur here
list the people u would be okay to vote for?

Ty4on, if only to clear up the weirdness I'm feeling about their bout with Chuggs (and looking at the votes, Ty is the one more likely to go right now)

I'm having trouble getting a scum read on anyone right now, which sucks.

It feels like this has been a strange day one, with a lot of people coming right out of the gate swinging (after the customary shit posting phase). I guess I'm more comfortable saying where I wouldn't want to vote today:

Nin
Sparks
Monkey
Stan
Jman
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,594
let me give you the quick n dirty list.


[He/Him] Funky Dude Sparks|Sparkster - UTC-5 : I hate the way he plays but i have to deal with it. Would love to see gone sooner than later

[He/Him] EzekelRAGE - UTC-6 : HE knows he does not have to do a thing and he probably wont get voted off today or tomorrow ( so ballsy )
[He/Him] FateShirou - UTC-5 : Who ? Big Questionmark


[He/Him] Stantastic|Stan - UTC+12 : His vote on me i guess started as a joke ? THe longer the vote on me stays the stanger it is, since i mean i get why you are putting the vote on me down but when the game started there was no real reason.

[He/Him] Zippedpinhead|Zipped - UTC-6 : big Question mark.

[He/Him] A Wild Ambulance Appears|Ambulance - UTC-6. Usually i see AWA as a pro town player, maybe AWA is out of gaß.

[He/Him] Feign - UTC-7 Big Question mark
[He/Him] Ynnek7|Kenny - UTC-5 : ????

[He/Him] TheChuggernaut|Chugg - UTC-6: Initially too passive for my taste, changed into its old self and is now back in form. Not sure if the beginning was him slacking of or what it was.

[He/Him] jman1954goat|Jman - UTC-7 : damn man his vote on Stan and unvoting him in mere minutes, him pushing Feign to put it all out there and then putting it all out there himself. So much to unpack. Not a good look. I mean i think me might be town but his moves were not really good.

[He/Him] SkyOdin - UTC-8 : Still a big mistery

[He/Him] Kopite - UTC+8 : A big mistery to me

[He/Him] HPsauce|HP - UTC+0 Also a big MIstery

[He/Him] Zem - UTC-0 Nice ron swanson gifs but thats it

[He/Him] Faddy - UTC+0 : poking here and there but nothing outstanding to say hey i want to keep him

[He/Him] Neki - UTC-7 Big mistery

[She/Her] Fanto - UTC-5: unsure not sure where to put her

Nice, thank you. How are you reading jman now after Feign flipped?
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Don't like this. It's not the targets that I take exception to - though I'm thinking through nin - so much as the framing. At this point, is there a particular reason you choose an info vote? Yes, yes, it's d1. But this is definitely not a standard d1.


I am thinking that flavor is pretty important here, from what we've seen and from my own PM.
Agreed, tho im only really interested in flavour contradictions, i imagine itd be pretty easy to invent convincing fakes given bastard game and metal gear...everything.
Hell it already almost happened with Feign lol.

so flavour lining up is really just the nai expectation rather than a seal of approval
 

Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,871
huh, I'm still left with many questions, but I guess we should move on. gonna move my vote to Ty4on for now, the other people with more than one vote on them I'm not interested in flipping today.

Vote: Ty4on
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,280
Chuggs, you wanna talk about this now that we know there is a defuser in play?

Yeah sure. I saw the word "Defuse" and him talking about how he wasn't guaranteed to hit his target. Thought "That sounds more like a bomb than a gun. Isn't there a MGS character that uses bombs?" Google'd "Metal Gear Solid character that uses bombs" Saw Fatman, and just kind of filled in the blanks with what made sense to me about it. A bomber also made sense to me with the role I have, but I'm not going into more detail than that.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,594
At this point, is there a particular reason you choose an info vote? Yes, yes, it's d1. But this is definitely not a standard d1.

Not really, my read on nin is just as good as any D1, it's just a feeling. As I've said before, I think scum was very wordy right at the beginning, the game reverted from the usual shit post phase very abruptly and i think that was scum activity. Nin was there. He also doesn't feel like his town self in my meta perspective.

And his flip will give us more info than Ty's, that's always something to consider, not only D1. My post was before Feign's flip which is the first piece of concrete info we have in the game, why do you think it's sus to be looking for info at that context? How do you think this D1 is different enough (before Feign died) that it's possible to have votes based on more than feeling and speculation?

I'm going to recalibrate my readings now that Feign flipped, but I was already reading him as town so I don't know if that will change much.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,280
And to elaborate a bit more, I thought the second big Feign was completely unnecessary unless he was trying to get scum to stay away, so it didn't make sense for him to be scum aligned to me, but the role with what he described didn't sound like a town role either, so neutral? Why would a neutral have bombs? Oh a serial killer. And then it was just me trying to figure out how that would work in this game. Turns out the first post was unnecessary too, and I shouldn't have read that much into the second one, but hindsight and all that.
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
All the reads from Feign I could find:
Fanto and Monkey already scummy. Nice
If it's the community meta to read something like this as scummy, why aren't you? All this post is doing is saying you'll hop on if there's a bandwagon, but you approach me as if you know I'm not mafia. It's something I see a lot of mafia try to do with newer players, while leaving enough in limbo to not feel like a walk back if and when they vote for them. It's weird.
Dr. Monkey

When you get back, can you answer this:

You said my post was something the community inherently reads as scummy. What do you make of so many people accepting your read of me as town? I'd also like some info on Fanto if you have any.
Good to know. I think you're likely town, but if not, you'll post enough for reads to scour over old posts with. There'd be WIFOM, but it's usually easy to tell based on how others react and use your posts. Doubt I'll be voting for you today, at the very least.
Feign didn't make a detailed read of Monkey, but found her initial suspicion of his claim scummy, but moved over to reading her as light town that he didn't wanna vote D1.
So if you're reading it the same way as Monkey, what does Monkey posting that say to you about her alignment? And I'm asking this in a genuine and not leading way since I don't know meta here. Your reaction is also weirdly comfortable with accepting Monkey's read, so if this is normal, that will help me readjust. It sets off major red flags, but I do think it means you probably aren't both mafia if one of you is.
Just from what I read to now, there were a few people who were suspecting you because your posts were very mild. Now suddenly you seem to be pushing very hard.

Do you normally shift your playstyle so hard when people suspect you or is it only when you're scum?
They weren't from the first few hours, but if you say so I guess I gotta believe it.
I mean



When have I been playing? I don't consider myself a vigilante, but that's the title I was given.

I like that you're trying to shift to me being neutral, though. I've been waiting for someone to start that train. Carry on. :)
There is initial suspicion from the reaction to the claim, then much later something to the way Chuggs increased aggression versus me and finally seeing him as someone trying to paint Feign as a neutral.
There's a fair bit of suspicion thrown here, but it remained kinda surface level in the posts, but it's clear from the tone he doesn't trust Chuggs.
Oh we definitely have similar enough play styles, then. Good times. I think that means I'm going to have to use my vote on you today, but I'll wait for more developments first.
REPLYING TO ZEM
Fun! I'll note the post I originally quoted as awkward wording while also adding that you and Maol could be teamed.
who cares. townies can make lists with no reason attached to them, it's not an alignment tell to throw out a list of people in a game this big that you don't want to vote for on D1. players need to get a list of 27 down to like 5 or so people with basically no real information.
This post literally says nothing lmao. If we're going off nothing than why is it a problem if I care how that post came off? It's all fair game, so why defend this particular post? It absolutely can be an alignment tell and has been in games I've played. Stop posting fluff.
I'm defending it because I'm the one who asked for the lists.

games you've played does not equal this game in particular
Y'all are making me so late for my date. This is why I stopped playing mafia.

Also Maol's "just because it happened in that game doesn't mean it's this game" is more very basic fluff that says nothing. Real, "you know there's no I in team" vibes.
Now things are getting spicier, Feign really doesn't like Maol and I haven't really thought about reading Maol much so I guess that's homework for me.
We start with what seems like a joke about how he has to vote him if his scum play is like his own. Investigating the reply to Zem we see:
scum newbies are my Achilles heel, man. always give new players too much benefit of the doubt. Let's kill em early this time.

Vote: Zem
We'll apparently see what Feign can do with his vote at the end of the day so I'm quite interested in seeing whatever that is.
Which I read as thinking Maol might know from talking in scumchat to Zem that he is scum.
Later in the thread Feign in pinged pretty hard by Maol when he defended ATP for posting a list of players he wouldn't vote for. Feign doesn't change his read when later learning that Maol had asked people for reads like that.
Is that why you're asking for permission to vote me instead of just doing it?
This is a scummy as hell post. It makes me think you're scum and this is for WIFOM purposes if you flip. Do not like. There's no reasoning. Just a list.
Fair, I have like a combined 10 pages I haven't caught up on. Why wouldn't Maol mention that, though?
We have a ton of suspicion, but are kinda left hanging :/
I do get the sense that ATP is very much in his pile of people to keep an eye on because of passive play early on.
We'll apparently see what Feign can do with his vote at the end of the day so I'm quite interested in seeing whatever that is.
Is this your first game here, too? I can't find the list where it says who's new here. If so, have you played anywhere else?
Yeah first game, I've been following the threads loosely for about a year so decided to play one.
Fun! I'll note the post I originally quoted as awkward wording while also adding that you and Maol could be teamed.
The only thing here is he finds Zem suspicious for his awkward post.
Dear cop please greencheck Fanto.

I think that the player number is weird. Like 28 is 7ish scum. Maybe include a serial killer. It just seems way too big to be a simple game. And it is a Natiko game and it is bastard. So there is going to be something unexpected going on.
I like this post, because it's where I've been coming from, but that also makes me distrust it haha. Even bastard games ATTEMPT balance, so trying to figure that out is a good step 1. I will say this: unless something interferes, there should be at least 2 deaths day 1. And if there's not, then because of my passive there will likely be at least one extra in the night. I think the beginning of day 2 could open on a bloodbath.
Light town read of Faddy for wondering about what the game actually looks like under the hood.
So I'm not completely trollish before I disappear for 10-18 hours:

I'm just going off of my role in regard to the bloodbath. It's not a standard role despite having a standard name and so my expectations of what this game will be is based on that. If you want more: ya gotta wait. I know it makes discussing things in private with your buddies a bit harder, especially when you know I'm at the very least not mafia and claiming a power role, yet people have me leaning more toward town than not. It's inconvenient, yeah?

I like your thinking with monkey, because that absolutely stood out to me, too. However, the goal for town isn't to find out one persons alignment, it's to understand the dynamic between who is genuinely trying to figure things out and who is saying the most middle of the road, "look, ma, I made a point!" things that don't create discussion.

If we're going off feeling, the feeling I get from this single post [as I'm about 300 posts behind oh god --- sorry! :( ---] is that you're looking for things that are scummy. Great, so is town. However, they're also looking for signs that someone is town. I don't get that from you here. It's really hard to search for revealing evidence that points to someone as town when you already know they aren't scum.

If Monkey and I were your only reads when Faddy had posts I would argue stand out as much by trying to figure out the ratio of mafia to town, I'll just say I find that interesting.

----

Sorry if that is a jumbled mess of words lmao. I m trying to proof read it and structure it but I am half asleep. At least I think I fixed enough of the embarrassing parts.

Okay, have at it ya cute ol' piranhas. Good night for real. I can't believe I made fun if Ty4on for doing exactly this earlier
Lmao, I literally said going by this one post. You gonna defend your wording and ignore mine? C'mon nin :P

What are you playing at here, tho

Like the whole point of my post was that yeah it's very obvious you're reading me as town, so the whole "what if Monkey and Feign were teamed OH SHIT" seems like fake WIFOM looking for a reaction and if anyone else will bite.

Ya know: real "just asking questions" like
Definitely a good interaction. And I can go to sleep now that people know we're not teamed
Now we're getting a more detailed read. First quote reads as a fairly hard sus as he thinks nin's reads look a lot like reads made by mafia. He is perhaps toning it down a bit aware that he might read stuff wrong if there's a playstyle clash. Second post reads as a harder sus as he reads the read of himself and Monkey as flat out fake.
For instance, this is a decently townish post because it's considering the possibility of my play as mafia, something mafia know I'm not and are more likely to push the neutral reading of my claims. Especially if I was previously being read as town. Mafia now needs to come up with an explanation for why I don't come off as teamed but should still be killed. Is it enough for me to confirm Leo? God no, lol, I look for people who suspect me of being mafia to soft confirm town. This could easily be pocketing.

Also hi, hello. I'm new here, but not a new player. Not by a longshot. I'll leave most of the details blank for now. Gotta establish a new meta for myself since it's been so long. But I am always actively thinking about how my play will be interpreted for the next game when I flip and how to manipulate with that. I am town, but when I flip town this play will help me of and when I'm scum. It won't be the same play, but the spirit of it will be there. You'll see a pattern soon enough.
A light town read of Leo. This read is also contrasting some earlier reads, talks about neutral which references his read of Chuggs.


I just picked out the posts I deemed to be reads from Feign and not all of the interactions. Feign felt like a pretty decent player and now that we know his alignment that could make his reads worthwhile. Sadly like me he also dropped a bit out of the game middle of D2 and so there isn't that much content and it's all raw reactions and not analytical reads.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,260
I'm a little befuddled by the Feign role claim. I'm struggling to see the rationale of pulling that role claim as a neutral. He was already in a pretty good spot, so to me it just seems like bringing a whole bunch of heat down upon yourself for no reason.

this is where i am at. I don't know why he would claim his role like that as mafia or neutral. It doesn't make sense.
 

HPSauce

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,118
U.K.
Although having said that everyone that has played in either Fate or the Eastenders game should all know full well I don't post much. My lack of posting isn't some out there shock it's normal.